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How Technology Killed Marketing

December 11th, 2008 @ 5:30 am

68 Comments

Categories: Career Development, Management, Marketing, Rant, Sales Process, Watercooler

Tags: Advertisement, Sales, Direct Mail, Marketing Research, Marketing, Geoffrey James

Time was that marketing was glamorous.  The heyday of marketing can be viewed every week in the television show Mad Men.  In that glamorous world, the marketeer (represented by the quintessential ad exec) is a master of the universe.

In that world, marketing was seen as the engine that drove sales.  Clever ideas and memorable brands, expressed through pricey advertising, created business success. Marketing “created demand” and the sales group was simply a means to fulfill that demand.

But now technology has killed Mad Men marketing… by making demand creation measurable.

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  •  
    1

    james.hare@...

    12/11/08 | Report as spam

    RE: How Technology Killed Marketing

    Hear Hear!

  •  
    2

    shermanmohr

    12/11/08 | Report as spam

    RE: How Technology Killed Marketing

    Love it! I run into "marketers" and when they
    don't know the web space it's like looking into
    the eyes of an endangered species.

  •  
    3

    Lucio Dias Ribeiro

    12/11/08 | Report as spam

    RE: How Technology Killed Marketing

    Since the start Internet Marketing has in its essence the forms of direct marketing - interactiveness, relevance, trackability and more.
    David ogilvy would be proud if he could see where we come
    Cheers
    Lucio Dias Ribeiro
    The Online Circle

  •  
    4

    Rockerred

    12/11/08 | Report as spam

    RE: How Technology Killed Marketing

    Why the contempt toward the notion that there ought to be a message, a value proposition more respectful and thoughtful than 'Click here to buy right now!'?

  •  
    5

    Arnwulf

    12/11/08 | Report as spam

    RE: How Technology Killed Marketing

    I agree with James Hare! The article speaks volumes about what the internet has done to the old concept of marketing! As a manager, the internet provides us an indicator of that concept, ROI! Accountability is another buzzword that would apply.

    My politically correct perspective is:
    If a marketing person is good, and has kept up with the technology and changes, then s/he has already adjusted their skills to include the internet...

    I have never watched the TV series, Mad Men, due to my pre-conceived ideas about the show. I have no desire to do so in the future, either.

  •  
    6

    monger@...

    12/11/08 | Report as spam

    RE: How Technology Killed Marketing

    I think there are apparently still a lot of folk who seem to have only a hazy idea of what marketing is (or should be ) about.

    The web hasn't "killed marketing" We are working there and in many other areas.

    Don't confuse Advertising with Marketing - Advertising is just one part of one P (promotion) which in turn is just one of a number of P's that make up marketing.

    Marketing is about focusing primarily on the importance of markets (customers, prospective customers) and managging that process as effectively as we can. It is not about some sort of glam world. It is a job like any other - but an important one to understand and get right

  •  
    7

    Geoffrey James, Sales Machine

    12/11/08 | Report as spam

    RE: How Technology Killed Marketing

    From a reader:




    Right on with your thoughts on Marketers. I'm surrounding myself with social media pros, web analytics freaks, and folks far smarter than I. Audience, traffic, and the experience one has while learning and then buying are far more important to me than "marketing". Glad to read I'm not going nuts.

  •  
    8

    Geoffrey James, Sales Machine

    12/11/08 | Report as spam

    RE: How Technology Killed Marketing

    Quote from Why the contempt toward the notion that there ought to be a message, a value proposition more respectful and thoughtful than 'Click here to buy right now!'?


    No objections to well-written value propositions. I just think that any marketing activities that can't be objectively measured are useless.

  •  
    9

    maria camacho

    12/11/08 | Report as spam

    RE: How Technology Killed Marketing

    I am in the process of reading Groundswell by Charlene Li, and Josh Bernoff. They have some great suggestions for companies that may need help in this area and similar areas relating to the internet.

  •  
    10

    conrad rozario

    12/11/08 | Report as spam

    RE: How Technology Killed Marketing

    Hey,

    Here's what I think....marketing has changed. The Channels of reach and distribution had/is cahnging even has we speak. The phsychological demographics of consumers have shifted and technology like a weapon can either be used for positive or negative outcomes...and a good marketer knows how to harness it and use it has one of his weapons to capture his market segment.
    As so elegantly commented, marketing needs to be measured but in view to improve the marketing and sales efforts of a whole organization...and keep marketing on track, productive and supportive of every sales effort!
    The internet is not a god that will outsource marketing or marketers...it is however controlled by the sales and marketing professionals who are the "gods" who harness maximum yield from it.

  •  
    11

    pfarago

    12/11/08 | Report as spam

    RE: How Technology Killed Marketing

    I agree with the author for the most part. I guess the piece is melodramatic for effect - after all BNET relies on readers for advertising revenue. .Overall, I agree about measuring marketing and that TV and Print are all but obsolete. I have my undergrad and MBA in marketing, from some named schools, and about 13 years experience product marketing. Mktg 101 teaches you to only run programs you can measure. There is definitely some art in the creative and language aspects of catching someone's attention, creating "stopping power" etc, so that will always exist as long as we are marketing to humans. However, things can and should be tested such as copy, product name, etc. If you are a smart person doing marketing, regardless of your "title" you'll lean into the Internet, e-mail (the new form of direct mail), mobile, and other measurable efforts.

  •  
    12

    ConsultantYYZ

    12/11/08 | Report as spam

    RE: How Technology Killed Marketing

    Technology has not killed marketing or advertising or anything. Technology has provided, in this context, new and exciting channels to connect with people: to inform them, persuade them, build a relationship and transact with. While the focus is on social networking sites and other web 2.0 enabled channels, it is important to point out that low tech channels still exist: print, television, outdoor, are all still around and will be, in one form or another, for some time. Tech has given people a broader selection of options from which to choose where, when and how they want to be spoken to. Naive "marketers" who believe that only activities that can be measured are in for a surprise: in the first place, nobody told consumers and they still respond to unmeasurable media, and secondly the holy grail of measurement that on-line activities spits out is, for the most part, irrelevant if not downright misleading statistics. At the end of the day, the only measurement that matters is profitability, and this can be achieved only through an intelligent mix of available media and channels.

  •  
    13

    Shahid Haq

    12/11/08 | Report as spam

    RE: How Technology Killed Marketing

    I teach marketing and the first lesson is Marketing is not Advertising alone!. The writer has ignored th other very important 6P's of marketing. What he is saying is analogous to saying that missiles or star wars killed warfare. It did not. It just added another dimension. And good practitioners of marketing have already incorporated this increasingly important dimension in their strategy.

  •  
    14

    steve@...

    12/12/08 | Report as spam

    RE: How Technology Killed Marketing

    How romantic to think that "marketing" or the
    advertising industry was anything like that portrayed in
    MadMen much past the 60s. By the time the internet
    arrived the scientific methods and measuring success
    by the metrics you assign to it were already part of the
    toolset for successful marketing communications. Any
    brand manager at P&G or Clorox in the 80s can attest
    to that reality. While there is no doubt the internet has
    accelerated the process, and makes for easier tracking
    of more metrics and conversion. It has not killed
    marketing nor will it be the end of any advertising
    media.

    So many of your assertions about the offline and online
    communication are patently false I can only assume
    they are written in jest, especially since so much of
    your writing appears in printed vehicles that are
    advertising supported.

    Statements like:
    "...When you run a print ad, you have no idea whether
    or not it has any impact on anyone..."

    "Ever since the invention of the remote control, nobody
    has watched television ads unless they were
    background noise. TiVo and on-demand video has
    made TV ads even less effective."

    "...But with the Internet, marketing is now completely
    measurable...."

    "...The marketeer of the future will be a quant, a
    scientist, a functionary who actually does what the Mad
    Man was supposed to be doing ??? generate leads...."

    demonstrate such seat of the pants inaccuracies about
    what is measurable, the internet, the market
    penetration of TiVo or on-demand video, and the
    quantifiable synergies between offline and online
    marketing communication as to make you sound as ill
    qualified as the marketers you so clearly disdain.

    Working in the internet space since 1994 and I can tell
    you I hear the same complaints and buck passing from
    the sales guys when they don't hit their numbers as I
    did in the decade prior to the commercial internet. I
    can also tell you that the online world is not 100%
    measurable or accurate, and that when offline
    advertising budgets are cut we see less traffic, and
    when it goes up we see an increase. And that both
    pure product and pure branding messages can
    produce lift in traffic as well as conversions. The
    internet has not killed off marketing any more than
    MBAs have killed off entrepreneurship.

    The funny thing about your MadMen anecdote, the
    three martini lunch for ad-types died in the 70s, but it
    is the rare salesperson indeed who doesn't want to
    take the client/prospect out for a few drinks, or get
    them on the golf course and into the clubhouse. Ever
    see any cost analysis or conversion metrics around
    these old-school approaches?

  •  
    15

    b160allen

    12/12/08 | Report as spam

    RE: How Technology Killed Marketing

    Wow! I didn't realize that marketing was dead. I guess SEO, blogging, e-mail campaigns, PPC, the use of channels such as YouTube is not marketing. Why the tone of contempt? It's great that we are able to better measure the efforts that businesses go through to reach their customer base through specific analytic tools. Why not celebrate progress?

  •  
    16

    Ian P

    12/12/08 | Report as spam

    RE: How Technology Killed Marketing

    For many of us, all technology did was shoot back.
    The so called 'marketing ' of technology, from the 1970's through 'til today, has pushed technological development into the world of entertainment, simply providing over-functional toys that most folk struggled with.
    While all the 'noise and hype' was about how technology would save the world, what did we end up with; Playstations, iPhones, home entertainment centres and the like.
    All marketing driven income generators that, by keeping people glued to their screens, actively prevents them from using their minds or talents.
    By any reasonable projections technology should have had us colonising near space for the last 20 years, and yet where are we? Moribund and transfixed by toys.
    God help the state of the world if the marketing men recover and technology is side-roaded again

  •  
    17

    ghatbkk

    12/12/08 | Report as spam

    RE: How Technology Killed Marketing

    Killed? No.

    Changed? Absolutely.

    Although I agree with another of the posters that there seems to be a confusion between advertising and marketing.

    As for the measurement bit: "If you can't measure it, you can't manage it."

  •  
    18

    gonca.telli@...

    12/12/08 | Report as spam

    RE: How Technology Killed Marketing

    I think the title is wrong technology has not killed marketing, only changed the styles and approaches to the customer. To cope with more informed and knowledgeable customer is not easy as in 1970's or 80's.

    "How to be a technology savvy marketer" should be discussed from now on. The mentioned technology was Internet however we are facing more touching technology of mobile.

  •  
    19

    tanmaysahay

    12/12/08 | Report as spam

    RE: How Technology Killed Marketing

    I will have to disagree slightly here. In the third world (I'm from India), where internet accessibility is less than 20% (maybe more), it still makes business sense to keep the mad men on your payrolls; especially for all essential goods.

  •  
    20

    pgostick

    12/12/08 | Report as spam

    RE: How Technology Killed Marketing

    An interesing, if IMHO naive, perspective. The author clearly believes that Marketing is simply marketing communications.

    It should not be a case of 'them and us' we all work on the same team, but for the record selling is but one small part of real marketing. Raw selling is what smaller companies do before they begin to mature and build a real strategy for a competive market.

    Selling focuses on the product in hand and the pressure to ???get rid of it??? to meet targets, almost regardless of the needs of the customer. Raw selling may make the numbers in the short term but it may also leave a customer with a product they wish they had never bought and therefore, they may never return as a customer again. As Peter Drucker famously observed, the purpose of business is create and keep customers. Marketing rightly takes a longer-term view. The matching of customers??? needs and suppliers??? resources may take more time and effort but the customer is more likely to be comfortable with their decision and be loyal.

    Get the proposition right, segment your market, and target those segments ??? and customers will fall over themselves to do business with you.

    Segmentation is the first crucial step. The grouping together of customers with common needs now makes it possible to set marketing objectives for each of those segments. Once the objectives have been set, strategies can be developed to meet those objectives using tactical weapons such as lead generation and selling.

  •  
    21

    may08

    12/12/08 | Report as spam

    RE: How Technology Killed Marketing

    The sad fact of the matter really is - marketing was ALWAYS measurable.

    I cannot think of one medium today I cannot measure, real-time, how it is performing.

    I offer this solution for sale - but it is not my primary lot in life. Just something I know I can do with my years of experience in business.

    I think the issue lies in some marketers being advertisers only. They are not truly marketers since analytics and measure have to be at the heart of any real marketing effort.

    If I can measure the ROI on any campaign - radio, TV, print, online, etc. - then other peers of marketing VP's need to wake up and hold them accountable.

    Until that day - people will assume the only measurable thing is what is done online. Which is completely false. Period.

    Like I always say - if you can't measure the success, you won't take time measure the failure.

  •  
    22

    carolyn.monaco

    12/12/08 | Report as spam

    RE: How Technology Killed Marketing

    My response is, "Move forward, marketers. Embrace what's measurable. Understand your numbers, and improve upon them." And read The Brand Bubble.

  •  
    23

    AFCraig01

    12/12/08 | Report as spam

    RE: How Technology Killed Marketing

    This article really shows a lack of depth and understanding for what marketing really is. What this guy is talking about is advertising...not marketing.

    The reality is the internet is not the end all solution to everones advertising needs. What it has done is established that organizations and companies need to have a balanced advertising strategy the utilizes the internet to measure effectiveness.

    Not a great article...understand what is trying to be said. It's usually best to do all the research before making a broad sweeping coment like this.

  •  
    24

    2ndQuadrant

    12/12/08 | Report as spam

    RE: How Technology Killed Marketing

    I am under the impression that the author confused "marketing" with "advertising".
    Marketing has a wider connotation and the effectiveness of it has always been measurable.
    Advertisement?. Well,that's the point of this story. Isn't?

  •  
    25

    Parker51

    12/12/08 | Report as spam

    RE: How Technology Killed Marketing

    This article could have been written by anyone. It's a very simplistic, non-original, outsider's view of marketing. It would have been news 10 years ago - not now.

  •  
    26

    PowerFlite

    12/12/08 | Report as spam

    RE: How Technology Killed Marketing

    The author has mistaken a constantly changing industry
    for a dead one. Not even close. The ways people
    communicate, interact, and influence each other have
    changed as the world has changed -- as much due to
    educational, financial, and political changes as to
    technology. Marketing changes (and thrives) with it.

    Further, the author appears to confuse brand strategies
    with empty sloganeering. That's not uncommon, but
    should be avoided while sneering at a misperception.

    As for his love of measuring effectiveness, that's always a
    nice goal, but anytime you're trying to influence
    behaviors, it's best to beware of what you THINK your
    measurements are "proving."

    Technology kill marketing? Technology just keeps
    inventing new tools for marketing to grow with.

  •  
    27

    themarketeer

    12/12/08 | Report as spam

    RE: How Technology Killed Marketing

    Actually, the scope of marketing is broader
    than ever before. Even mom-and-pop outfits need
    to market now because they are competing on a
    global footprint. What's changed is that some
    marketeers have not kept up with the times (as
    happens in many other professions). CEOs and
    CFOs are often misguided about the role of
    marketing, and articles such as this further
    serve to mislead those that are ill informed to
    start with.
    Good marketers are in heavy demand - trust me,
    I know from first hand experience. Companies -
    big and small - that ignore marketing do so at
    their own peril.
    Re. points made in the article, some clarifying
    facts:
    -Internet advertising is only 10% of the
    overall advertising industry.
    -DVR penetration is only 27% in the US
    -Newsflash - one of the big initiatives in the
    cable industry is to insert advertising in
    VOD!! Regardless, VOD viewing is a very small
    fraction of TV viewing --ergo, most people
    actually watch TV ads. Cable advertising is
    expected to grow 4% in 2009.

  •  
    28

    mccarnan

    12/12/08 | Report as spam

    RE: How Technology Killed Marketing

    I sell ad space in a print publication, so I disagree with much of what Geoffrey has written in this article. For those who have disagreed with Geoffrey, I have a question for you to consider and answer. I deal with people every day who have his similar mindset.

    So then, How do I, as a salesman re-educate MDs (& the C-class for that matter) to see their need for multi-dimensional & multi-venue marketing & advertising? How do I counter arguments & numbers about how through technology they are able to extrapolate numbers & get a potential ROI based on metrix given to them by a techie housed in his mom's basement?

    Further, how would an ad salesman argue the "quantifiable synergies between offline & online marketing communication"?

    Because the sales staff didn't get their numbers, the company suffers and because so many aspects are measurable, the one that is harder to track (marketing-really both offline & online) gets dumped on.

    How do I get Geoffrey and others to better realize, that "the online world is not 100% measurable or accurate, and that when offline advertising budgets are cut we see less traffic, and when it goes up we see an increase. And that both pure product and pure branding messages can produce lift in traffic as well as conversions."?

  •  
    29

    troyscheer@...

    12/12/08 | Report as spam

    RE: How Technology Killed Marketing

    I would agree that the title might be a bit misleading. However, I do think Geoffrey was a bit over the top intentionally. Take it easy folks. Maybe technology has just killed lazy marketers. Technology has provided for more "real time" data. Ideas can be tested and tweaked much more easily now. Newspaper and television are hurting simply because people have moved on to new mediums to acquire information. Technology has given more control to the customer in the information they are willing to accept from a brand. The specificity and relevancy of message is what is important now. Where the old monologue approach used to work, now customers expect a conversation. Technology has pushed us to think more from the customer perspective. It's making us realize how important that :15, :30, or 1:00 of the customer's valuable time is. Mediums like Youdata.com are now supporting consumers desire to be compensated for their valuable time when it comes to accepting brand messages. So, no, technology hasn't killed marketing. It has just pulled away the big magic drape.

  •  
    30

    K2Colo

    12/12/08 | Report as spam

    RE: How Technology Killed Marketing

    Should Geoffrey be writing for Enquirer Magazine, sensationalism, half-truths, hype, and here's the kicker, all to sell ad space. Just last year he was ranting about how Marketing wasn't measurable, and had no value. Now he writes it is measurable, but it's no longer marketing. Losing respect for BNET as a resource for real information.

  •  
    31

    vmorgan@...

    12/12/08 | Report as spam

    RE: How Technology Killed Marketing

    This article is TERRIFIC! RIGHT ON! As a Certified Guerrilla Marketing Coach, counselor with the NJ SBDC, and professional ed teacher of marketing in many NJ colleges, I fully support the author. Clients and students who have come from big business or who have taken marketing classes in colleges (taught from 2-3 year old texts) think that advertising is marketing. From my unconventional guerrilla marketing recommended approach, students learn that advertising is the LAST thing they do. They also learn that if their are 'not up to speed' with the use of technology (website, email, social networking, etc.), they might as well 'fold their tent'. Thanks for expressing this reality so well. Vicki Lynne Morgan, Russmor Marketing Group.

  •  
    32

    Patrick Reilly

    12/12/08 | Report as spam

    RE: How Technology Killed Marketing

    Of course things have changed. Of course some of the glamor is gone. Aside from a handful of shops that still get to produce sexy :30's and spend big media budgets, just about everyone has figured out that you actually need to know how to DO something to be a smart marketer. Drinking martini's hasn't been part of the adman skill set for more than 20 years. Instead, we're tasked with learning fast, finding ways to take advantage of new ways of doing business, and leading clients forward. But don't make the mistake in thinking that just because technology has changed the game, our role has been diminished. Clients still need the leadership, experience, and wise counsel of those who have a passion for this business.


    http://www.createwanderlust.com/patrick-reilly

  •  
    33

    06897

    12/12/08 | Report as spam

    RE: How Technology Killed Marketing

    Since Al Gore invented the internet (remember that one?) marketing and advertising has certainly changed, but to state that offline channels are not measurable is simply ridiculous.

    If you can not measure your offline channels you should not be in them... And my newsprint ads do drive leads which i can measure from the point they dial the number all the way through to how much they spend with me for the life of the consumer turned customer.

    The internet is just another targeted marketing channel and one that is as easily ignored as the TV commercials you no longer watch because of tivo or the remote control. I am not saying that it is not an incredibly powerful channel, but at the end of the day a consumer will choose how they want to be spoken to and marketers, advertisers, CFOs and CEOs alike better stay in tune with their consumers or they will not be heard.

  •  
    34

    SteveRider

    12/12/08 | Report as spam

    RE: How Technology Killed Marketing

    This article created 34 responses so far. If you look through the history of Mr. James's posts, you'll find that he has a consistent disdain for the marketing role in general. He feels it's an unmeasured, budget and resource leech in most companies. He also knows that whenever he posts a controversial article about marketers, he gets a ton of responses.

    People, you're being played.

    Simply, Mr. James is employing a tried and true marketing technique of creating controversy to create buzz for his blog on BNET. You'll see that he has done this every few months just to get interest up.

    Despite his self-marketing tactics, I'll keep reading Mr. James's blog because when he does talk about what he knows, Sales, he's very informative.

  •  
    35

    tms2

    12/12/08 | Report as spam

    RE: How Technology Killed Marketing

    This makes great reading again and the "pure-bred" salesguys will always blame the marketing guys for the lack of leads. Whats's new?

    I remember growing a computer company that I bought into (and then bought) from ??1M sales to ??7M in sales in the space of 3 years - 1997-2000. The main driver was direct marketing and the constant process of ready - fire - aim (oops lets measure that and start again). Tied in very closely was "how de we respond to every single lead so that we can upsell, cross sell and maximise long term value, etc, etc. It took a lot to train the sales guys not to just respond with a quote but really understand the total package that the customer was seeking and then sell him the whole solution (or mor realistically help him choose my company as the preferred supplier, etc, etc). The sales guys attitude, largely driven by the Sales Manager, was always "why do we waste so much money sending catalogues out?". I eventually sold the company in 2001 for 10 times more than the purchaser's first offer!.

    Funnily enough, as soon as I had served my earn-out, the sales manager promoted himself to "Sales and Marketing Manager" and printed his photo and new title on the inside front cover of the catalogues. Strangely, the company's turnover is still hovering around the ??7M mark 5 years later!!

  •  
    36

    WEB3Direct

    12/12/08 | Report as spam

    RE: How Technology Killed Marketing

    When I first started marketing in the 70s, I didn't know the term "direct response," but asking for the sale and tracking the results just seemed logical. The Fortune 100 corporation I worked for didn't agree... their "image" might be tarnished by my "salesy" marketing... it was "unprofessional!"

    I've made a career of direct response using every kind of media, including the Internet since 1993, and have created over 7200 campaigns. Marketing -- and markets -- are never static; they are in a constant state of flux and change. Even the universe in a qualified, segmented in-house mailing list changes from mailing to mailing, offer to offer. That's why in direct response every new campaign is considered a "test," and no matter how great the response, we are never satisfied. For me, yesterday's best is tomorrow's test, and I know I can always better the previous "best" results. That's part of why I love marketing!

    Great marketers are always discovering and learning new ways to reach over, around, under and through the clutter to get their message heard -- and responded to. Flying "under the radar" is often the best way to do this, but there is no textbook to teach outside-the-box thinking. It only comes from experience, and in marketing experience only comes testing campaigns and tracking your results.

    Other posts have pointed out the mistake of identifying marketing with advertising. I think a bigger mistake made in the article was lumping "old" media in one pile, and all the Internet marketing in another. All media are simply different channels to reach your audience, hopefully in a place where they'll hear and respond to your message. The fact is, people are psychographically different when driving their car and listening to the radio, at home watching TV, flipping through a magazine or checking their email. You and I move through different states of mind and awareness during our day, and that mindset determines whether we are more (or less) receptive to messages coming through specific media. They all have advantages -- and disadvantages -- and are all effective. Combined, they can truly synergize a message and explode results.

    Sometimes your marketing has to take a longer view as well. For example, in national campaigns, direct response can effectively use advertising and PR without measuring immediate sales, because the purpose is to create the awareness within the market. Using articles and press releases to create backlinks is essentially the same thing. If you measure your success by how many sales a single article brings in instead of the cumulative goal, you could very well give up just as you're on the brink of explosive growth.

    What we measure -- what we consider "success" -- is also important. Direct response campaigns can be one-step, but often multiple-step campaigns not only have greater sales results, but create a "bank" of customers and prospects that you can tap again and again. Too many businesses only rank their immediate sales, and don't consider lifetime customer value or building their list as important in their tracking metrics. For one client I built a list of over 52,000, doubling their catalog sales. By their metrics, the campaign was a failure because they were only interested in counting sales through their shopping cart!

    Ideally you want to have both sustaining frontend sales and active list-building for relationship selling and backend sales. We accomplished this "golden ring" of marketing with the Cash Flow Generator infomercial, which had enough front end sales revenue to make it self-sustaining. It became the longest profitable lead-gen infomercial ever, generating hundreds of thousands of qualified leads. Because most lead-gen campaigns -- even online -- incur front end costs, that is enough to keep most businesses from actively pursuing them. However, most businesses don't ever do anything with all the leads they get organically, much less leads from their active marketing.

    If I had to choose between the two, I know I can create quantum growth faster and at less cost, turn a startup into a multi-million dollar company in months rather than years, and dominate my markets faster and easier by building and mining a good list than by trying to constantly create new sales conversions from new prospects. But it takes a longer term view of the marketing process than most business owners seem to have.

    No, new media hasn't killed marketing. Measuring results isn't something new. The Internet has not replaced "old" media and it sure hasn't turned bookkeepers into savvy marketers. If anything, the Internet has dramatically expanded our marketing opportunities and made all this much easier and less expensive. Marketing -- real marketing -- has not only embraced and adapted to these new channels, but also the language and methods of using them to effectively earn the audience's responses. And marketers are already looking over the top of this mountain at the next peaks, the next innovations, the next opportunities to reach their markets in fresh, new ways. I couldn't imagine a greater time to be in marketing!

  •  
    37

    Geoffrey James, Sales Machine

    12/12/08 | Report as spam

    RE: How Technology Killed Marketing

    Quote from SteveRider Simply, Mr. James is employing a tried and true marketing technique of creating controversy to create buzz for his blog on BNET. You'll see that he has done this every few months just to get interest up.

    In fact, the posts that get a LOT of views are the "8 Steps to Selling Better" ilk. My marketing screeds generate a lot of comments, but not all that many views. I post them as something of a public service and because I keep finding new reasons to be annoyed at the waste.

  •  
    38

    macquid

    12/12/08 | Report as spam

    Happy to Oblige: Posted at Geoffrey James' Request

    Go ahead and post it.

    Or are you afraid I'll make you look ridiculous?


    -------- Original Message --------

    Subject: My Unpublished Comment I Thought You Should Read...

    From: Alan
    Date: Fri, December 12, 2008 3:41 pm
    To: Geoffrey


    Couldn't agree less with your Bnet article...

    Following is what I didn't post, but wanted you to read anyway:

    I wish all my competitors saw marketing as narrowly as Geoffrey James does. I'd put them all out of business by next quarter!

    It's a no-brainer that the Internet's advent has changed marketing to the core... just as TV did in its time, radio before that... all the way back to the printing press, which I would venture put a lot of town criers out of business in their day.

    Don't get me wrong, it's marvelous for us marketing guys that now we can accurately measure who's clicking on our "stuff", where they're coming from, how they react and whatever not. But that's such an infinitesimal part of what our marketing task consists of... unless perhaps your operation is an Internet version of what the Fuller Brush man and the Avon lady were in those pre Web days: "I got it... I pitch it... You sign on the bottom line".

    Because, when you're squaring off in sophisticated markets with complex products or services... like some of us do... you still need a whole bunch more tools to succeed than JUST the Internet utopia that Geoffrey James seems to live in.

    So before you all go out and buy funeral wreaths for marketing (though once again, I hope that all my competitors do...), I think it'd be wise to consider where Geoffrey James might be coming from...

    I read him to be a good "old fashioned" sales guy... not a product of new technologies or the Web... and most of these guys never, ever, understood what - in a broader sense - marketing REALLY consists of.

    So I "clicked through" on his bio, only to have my suspicions confirmed. But, I also was surprised to read there that "[...??] When writing about Sales, he draws on his prior experience marketing and selling multi-million dollar computer systems, his daily experience selling his own services, and the fact that every month he's personally being coached, one-on-one, by the world's top sales trainers.??"

    I don??t want to contradict, but I just phoned each and every one of ??"the world's top sales trainers??" but none of them seemed to know who Geoffrey James was?? happy

    (In other words, Personal Branding is also marketing)

    Sincerely,
    Alan

    P.S. BTW, they already had "quants" on print ads and TV commercials back in those "Mad Men Marketing Days"... Nielsen ratings, Nielsen Household Panel (which notably linked family's media behavior to in-store purchase behavior), etc... they were called, amongst others.

  •  
    39

    Aspennow

    12/12/08 | Report as spam

    RE: How Technology Killed Marketing

    Actually, technology is just one of the killers. The other is represented by the archiac, obsolete ideas from the disco era that many in marketing still cling to. Prime suspect: the theory of "positioning," which is not only immeasureable (who can say our "positioning" is 7% better than last year's?) but also is based on the proposition that your mind is like a huge parking lot, and that there is an empty space you can just drive -- or "position" -- a product in. Another suspect: the goal of "awareness." We are all "aware" of innumerable offerings -- some negative -- but CEOs rightfully don't want to pay for "awareness" or worse, "mind share." Instead, the want some sort of engagement, such as a sale. These points, as well as the methodologies for calculating the ROI that CEOs are looking for, are covered in my book: "ProfitBrand: How to Increase the Profitability, Accountability and Sustainability of Brands," which was named as a "Best Business Book" by strategy+business.

  •  
    40

    Geoffrey James, Sales Machine

    12/12/08 | Report as spam

    RE: How Technology Killed Marketing

    Quote from macquid: I don't want to contradict, but I just phoned each and every one of "the world's top sales trainers" but none of them seemed to know who Geoffrey James was...

    See Monday morning's post for my response to this ludicrous accusation.

  •  
    41

    Geoffrey James, Sales Machine

    12/12/08 | Report as spam

    Marketing Isn't Advertising

    A number of comments above suggest that I'm unable to differentiate between advertising and marketing.

    Uh, yes, I do know the difference, but I use broad-based "brand-oriented" advertising as an example of the dysfunctional marketing that's practiced inside many firms.

    Yes, there ARE firms that set their marketing budget by a percentage of revenue. And there ARE marketing groups that figure out ways to measure themselves so that, whatever happens, they end up looking good. And yes, there ARE marketing execs who fight real measurement tooth and nail because they know they'll be out of a job if anyone figures out that they're really contributing less than nothing to the sales effort.


    When I get the "I work in marketing and you're all wrong" comments, it simply shows me how easy it is for people to delude themselves when their paycheck hangs on the ability to remain self-deluded.

    Here's the truth: Most of what passes for marketing, especially in B2B firms, is BS. If it can't be objectively measured, it should be shut down. Period. In difficult economic times, Sales can't afford to carry Marketing on its back. Either contribute to the sales effort in a measurable way or find another job.

  •  
    42

    macquid

    12/12/08 | Report as spam

    RE: How Technology Killed Marketing

    Quote from macquid: I don't want to contradict, but I just phoned each and every one of "the world's top sales trainers" but none of them seemed to know who Geoffrey James was happy

    See Monday morning's post for my response to this ludicrous accusation.

    "Ludicrous", yes (you will have noted the tongue in cheek "smiley")...

    "Accusation", well no. "Mocking" would be the correct term.

  •  
    43

    Mgtube

    12/12/08 | Report as spam

    I'm not buying in...

    Quote from Geoffrey James: When I get the "I work in marketing and you're all wrong" comments, it simply shows me how easy it is for people to delude themselves when their paycheck hangs on the ability to remain self-deluded.

    Here's the truth: Most of what passes for marketing, especially in B2B firms, is BS. If it can't be objectively measured, it should be shut down. Period. In difficult economic times, Sales can't afford to carry Marketing on its back. Either contribute to the sales effort in a measurable way or find another job.


    I feel the need to respond to this rather pointless argument (and i do apologize if I'm going to sound rude).

    My question is who is Geoffrey James ? Not as in who are you in your "professional niche" but in the sense, who are you to bequeath yourself the right to accuse people of being self-deluded when in reality you could be the deluded one ?

    I personally don't treat any person differently from an other, even if he or she has more experience or detains greater knowledge over this or that. To me,in your case, I could care less if you wrote a megaton of articles treating over diverse subjects which have been published in numerous magazines throughout the world, it doesn't legitimize your being right.

    I guess what I'm trying to say here is that if I took Bill O'Reilly, he's a famous guy who most of us know about and have learned to love or hate, and he "influences" many opinions which sometimes are totally twisted from the truth or blatantly fabricated.

    My honest advice here is be careful about what you say and never stop reevaluating your surroundings, because when I read close to 40 comments which go against what you said in your article and see some even tell you your totally wrong with your assertions, it might be time to drop the "everybody else is crazy" act and start asking yourself if you might have gone wrong somewhere (be it as innocent or as volontary as possible).

  •  
    44

    dmilligan

    12/12/08 | Report as spam

    RE: How Technology Killed Marketing

    Why am I adding to this thread? It's because of technology. I have a computer, an internet connection, a Yahoo e-mail account into which a message containing a link to the above article found its way and I have not bothered to unsubscribe to it. But, while deleting the daily messages (the same way I throw out daily junk mail and erase telemarketing voice-mails,and skip through commercials on TV), I saw the headline for the article and thought maybe somebody else was mulling over similar thoughts to mine.
    First, I found the article to be goofy, with it's use of the word "technology" to be synonymous with the Internet (what about Gutenberg?), and the reference to the TV show "Mad Men" as an added attraction.
    I also did not appreciate the author's later comment that this was one of his "screeds" ("A long, esp. tedious, piece of writing or speech; a (dull) tract; in pl. (colloq.) , great quantities of. .- OED.) It got a stay of deletion because the comments were very interesting to me. I'm no marketer, salesman, or advertising person. I watch Mad Men because of the sets, props, and general aethestics of the program. It is mostly nostaglia, but looks great. Rear view mirror stuff, not a marketer's forward-looking vision.
    My own background is that of of producer of radio drama (25 years) and I.T. Director (for an automotive suppler). There's some technologies for you! In those years I've learned that "measurement" is important, but it's also voodoo. So is "meaning" and so is "definition". I think marketing is valid,that it is very different from advertising and sales. More conceptual than executional. When it comes to "technology", and the Internet technologies in particular, it is now hard to tell a spammer, scammer, or crank from legitimate marketers. The form maybe newer, but the content is the same old "buy now". Everybody wants to get rich on the Internet, and it's so much easier to publish a blog than, say, publish a hardcover book with Simon and Schuster.
    So, I guess my point is that maeketers have to find a way to attract me and not repulse me. There is such an inundation of information coming at people now, that it's become a bit like open pit mining. How does a marketer get me to put a value on his/her work? I'm open to new ideas, and there's probably a number of commenters in this thread I could have a great conversation with. Thanks to them, and even to Mr. James inadvertently. I'll quote from one on my former industries gurus:
    "With the digital world, it's about "selection", not "creation" - George Martin.

  •  
    45

    cloudsonfire

    12/13/08 | Report as spam

    RE: How Technology Killed Marketing

    Even technology has its limitation and the exact need of technology was because people have diiferent choices. Only saying that internet ads are traceable is not good enough.Find the nos. who actually pay any kind of attention to these coz on the internet you are dealing with the most impatient lot of customers.
    Tech. has not killed advertising but added a whole new dimension to it and was necessay to cater to all segments of ppl one is targeting

  •  
    46

    arlinwall

    12/13/08 | Report as spam

    RE: How Technology Killed Marketing

    the Internet is THE democratic medium. whereas the value of the end PSI (Product/Service/Information) is judged by its overall merits. Mad Men can no longer shape the world on either side of the market. death to the elitists, the meek have inherited the earth.

  •  
    47

    LeonardoWinch

    12/14/08 | Report as spam

    RE: How Technology Killed Marketing

    True, "MAD Men" are gone, thanks for that!More ancients to be taken down! For me, as a student of business management and marketing i have to say this: I'll go head to head vs a scientist any day, let's see if he knows what to do once he got all the numbers down, how he creatively pursues an idea that maybe has nothing to do with numbers but "feel" (call me MAD if you want!)!!!

  •  
    48

    Geoffrey James, Sales Machine

    12/14/08 | Report as spam

    RE: How Technology Killed Marketing

    From a reader:


    Right on with your thoughts on Marketers. I'm surrounding myself with social media pros, web analytics freaks, and folks far smarter than I. Audience, traffic, and the experience one has while learning and then buying are far more important to me than "marketing". Glad to read I'm not going nuts.

  •  
    49

    ssaurh@...

    12/14/08 | Report as spam

    MARKETING IS ALWAYS STRATEGIC TO SALES

    You just dont get it. I am a marketing manager and of course I dont agree with your assessment. Here is why - YOu have completely missed the point. Marketing is more than branding and promotion. It is a strategic function that decides who the target market is and the decisions of market-segmentation drives product roadmap and sales opportunities. Go to my blog and see what is marketing really about: http://businessism.blogspot.com

  •  
    50

    sergiokeller

    12/15/08 | Report as spam

    RE: How Technology Killed Marketing

    Why sales always have so much rage on their hearts?

    Note: I work on sales, and worked with trade marketing, and worked with Social Media and Web Analytics.

  •  
    51

    Geoffrey James, Sales Machine

    12/15/08 | Report as spam

    RE: How Technology Killed Marketing

    Quote from ssaurh: It is a strategic function that decides who the target market is and the decisions of market-segmentation drives product roadmap and sales opportunities.



    Sorry, but that's even worse that spending money on promotion and branding. Anyone who hasn't sold doesn't know a sales opportunity from a hole in the ground. Similarly, anybody who hasn't built and designed products can't possibly determine where a product set needs to go. Marketing managers who try to do the job of sales managers and engineering managers are worse than useless. They gum up the works with useless opinion and add little or nothing of value. At least when marketing focuses on branding and promotion they're just wasting money, not everyone else's time.

  •  
    52

    Geoffrey James, Sales Machine

    12/15/08 | Report as spam

    RE: How Technology Killed Marketing

    Quote from sergiokeller Why sales always have so much rage on their hearts?

    The reason that sales pros resonate with my irritation with marketing is that, in many firms, the marketing team sits in the boardroom and takes credit when the sales team does well, and is the first to blame the sales team when sales are down.

  •  
    53

    RZdanis

    12/15/08 | Report as spam

    As long as we have curiosity, there will ALWAYS be print media

    I agree with most of the article about how technology has killed marketing....and maybe I'm confusing advertising with marketing, but I have a theory. If you're in the grocery store, bookstore, etc... and you see a cover of a magazine or other publication that has material that interests you, do you pick it up? Of course...especially if it's free. WELL, as you read through the material, your subconscious mind sees the advertising within it. As you read your article about "whatever," your subconscious mind remembers an advertisement about new energy-saving windows. MARKETING people are those that MAKE SURE the ads are placed in the right media( in this case, a high quality publication) whose targeted area of distribution includes readers that have a household median income of $$$ and have 2 1/2 kids .... If a marketing department were to place it's company's ads in another source, and no matter what was offered, if the demographics of the readers didn't fit, the ad would be a waste of money. BY THE WAY, the internet should work WITH the print media...unless we're all walking around with our computers to search for information.

  •  
    54

    evansdave

    12/15/08 | Report as spam

    RE: How Technology Killed Marketing

    I've got a different take, though I agree 100%
    with the core of this post. Far from killing
    marketing, as I note in "Social Media
    Marketing: An Hour a Day" (see http://www
    ReadThis.com) the new measurability has in fact
    redefined the CMO/COO relationship and created
    a new opportunity for both.

    Marketing remains as important as ever -- the
    difference is that it is now all about
    measurable influence rather than immeasurable
    pitches and claims. Put on your metrics hat and
    participate in the conversations that impact
    your brand, product, or service. It's a brave
    new world. Be a part of it.

  •  
    55

    steve@...

    12/15/08 | Report as spam

    The ranting of a self important Hypocrite?

    For an expert in sales, you are doing a pretty poor job
    of selling your original premise. You wrote:

    "Sorry, but that's even worse that spending money on
    promotion and branding. Anyone who hasn't sold
    doesn't know a sales opportunity from a hole in the
    ground. Similarly, anybody who hasn't..."

    But somebody who has never worked in brand
    development or a marketing department is qualified to
    dismiss the whole discipline?

    I have never actually seen a blogger be a troll on his
    own posts.

  •  
    56

    Geoffrey James, Sales Machine

    12/15/08 | Report as spam

    RE: How Technology Killed Marketing

    Quote from steve But somebody who has never worked in brand development or a marketing department is qualified to dismiss the whole discipline?


    Ah, but I have done brand development -- big time. I was personally responsible for the branding of publishing software products for one of the largest high tech companies in the world. I was personally responsible for spending millions of dollars on logos, branding, market research, and advertising. That's why I know it's total BS. I wasn't 100 percent conscious of that fact when I was doing it at the time, but now that I've got some distance, I realize that I (and my colleagues in that group) were simply flushing corporate resources down the toilet. Even though we were winning "marketing awards" all over the place.

  •  
    57

    Geoffrey James, Sales Machine

    12/15/08 | Report as spam

    RE: How Technology Killed Marketing

    From a reader:



    Geoffrey,
    No one reads newspaper ads? No one is ever seduced by the branding ads in the the glossy magazines?What a collossal waste of money eh?All newspapaers and magazines will go under just like all pet food stores should have gone under when petfood.com went on line?? Come on Geoffrey, you need to be more measured.I guess putting those green eyeshades on has the same effect as putting on a police/security guard uniform on a nitwit...it makes them "masters of the universe" !

  •  
    58

    Y-man

    12/16/08 | Report as spam

    RE: How Technology Killed Marketing

    Get a clue! Do not forget the past and give credit where credit is due. All of the marketing and measurement used by the internet have been in place for years. Smart marketing people know this and have created these analytic and measuring tools to support the new media.

    Case in Point I was talking the other day with someone who did not believe that Behavioral Targeting existed before the internet. Yikes that is a step back. BT is essentially a modern translation of the great read "The Clustering of America" by Michael Weiss. He was not aware that it is essentially Market Segmentation on the technology tip. All forms of marketing still exits and will continue to be relevant. So as the gamer kiddies say stop being a troll and do yourself a favor ??? Act like you know.

    Oh and I do love reading your articles. Honestly I do. I am just a little surprised by this one.

  •  
    59

    PAB-SB

    12/16/08 | Report as spam

    What about the Super Bowl?

    Some people do still watch TV commercials. Look at the Super Bowl, for example.

  •  
    60

    Geoffrey James, Sales Machine

    12/16/08 | Report as spam

    RE: How Technology Killed Marketing

    Quote from yancey3 All of the marketing and measurement used by the internet have been in place for years. Smart marketing people know this and have created these analytic and measuring tools to support the new media.True, true. But, with the exception of direct mail, gathering such data was usually quite expensive and "more honored in the breach than the observance." In addition, there is a breed of marketeer who prefers not to be measured, because they are secretly aware that what they're doing is ineffective.



    Quick example: I worked with a marketing communications guy who got his company to spend $100,000 on national advertising. It bought next to nothing, of course, and could not possibly have any actual impact in terms of demand creation. However, he wanted to do it because it was a good career move for him to run an advertising campaign. Because his bosses wouldn't let him run the ads without measurement, he "measured" the reaction of analysts to the ad -- analysts who happened to be under retainer for other marketing research work. Surprise, surprise! Those were "measurably" the most effective ads the company had ever run. True story.

  •  
    61

    SteveRider

    12/16/08 | Report as spam

    RE: How Technology Killed Marketing

    61 responses and counting. Pretty controversial stuff. I stand by my original claim, you latch onto marketing-bashing simply to be controversial. I honestly can't believe that with the flurry of responses refuting your claims, that you continue to make blanket statements. Well before the internet there were other methods to measure the effectiveness of marketing programs. That's why many marketing research organizations existed. The problem was they were expensive and not timely, but they did exist and many sophisticated marketing organizations used them.

    I agree there are many incompetent marketing people and organizations out there. Just as there are incompetent engineers and incompetent sales people. Your examples focus on the incompetent ones but that certainly does not mean the function can't be measured and isn't being measured by successful companies.

    Your biggest gripe is that marketing is not accountable and therefore superfluous. To which the response should be, make it accountable. I agree that direct marketing programs are inherently easier to measure than most other elements of the promotional mix but that doesn't mean that they should be the only item in your promotional mix.

    Many people have tried to explain that marketing serves the role of understanding what the customer needs. Your response is that the sales organization and engineering can do that quite well. After all, who better understands the customer than the feet on the street?

    Here is the flaw in that logic. The sales team continually focus on the features that will help them overcome objections in the sales process. Engineering takes this feedback and prioritizes what they'll make based on the urgency and ability to deliver it. If every competitor in a market follows that strategy, you end up with a market of very similar commoditized products. A good marketing organization should be able to identify the market requirements needed to deliver value to the customer and maintain value for the corporation. If the marketing department does its job, the measure of contribution is gross margin because they've helped deliver a differentiated product that can be competitive.

  •  
    62

    rearl@...

    12/19/08 | Report as spam

    RE: How Technology Killed Marketing

    The writer is an idiot. And I'm positive he has never
    worked in the field of marketing and wouldn't know a
    marketing plan if it hit him in the head. BNET ought to
    vet its contributors.

  •  
    63

    Geoffrey James, Sales Machine

    12/19/08 | Report as spam

    RE: How Technology Killed Marketing

    Quote from rearl And I'm positive he has never worked in the field of marketing and wouldn't know a marketing plan if it hit him in the head.

    See comment 56.

  •  
    64

    4040

    02/11/09 | Report as spam

    RE: How Technology Killed Marketing

    Has the internet killed marketing? This is irrefutable for some sectors. Not so in others (e.g. complex high-tech product sales). I suggest it all comes down to the business model (i.e. how value is created and exploited). At one extreme, Business models that require no buyer-seller interaction will win on the back of (internet based) marketing (i.e. product management, product marketing, channel management and channel marketing). At the other extreme, Business models that require close buyer-seller interaction will win on the back of good consultative sales people (internet and marketing become secondary). There are any number of offerings that buyers would never buy online.

    The reality lies somewhere in between. Anyone who has worked with the very best Companies will recognise the "secret sause" is teamworking. New Product Introduction and Product Launch processes require highly skilled people - from many disciplines - to work together to get it right . When the goals of making a commercial breakthrough in the marketplace are made clear to the team - and budgetary constraints are imposed - this has the effect of focusing the right people on the right activities to generate the best results.

    "Marketing" alone can't and doesn't do this...

    Has the internet killed Marketing? Perhaps as the exception. Not as the rule.



  •  
    65

    pegdirect

    02/20/09 | Report as spam

    RE: How Technology Killed Marketing

    It scares me how uneducated our new pundits are. I've been in direct marketing for 30 years and been measuring results since day one. The internet is a wonderful new tool to help marketers. We have lots of tools, and, as new ones become available, we pounce on them. Old methods will always die out as they become outmoded. But anyone who doesn't seriously consider what he doesn't know is in trouble. I worry about those who are growing up in the tech tunnel. Life is buzzing outside the tunnel too. As a first-hand observer of Madmen in their heyday, I don't mourn their passing. Evolution is taking place, and, hang on to your hat, will continue to do so. Happy birthday Darwin. Keep looking over your shoulders guys. It ain't over yet.

  •  
    66

    sparkerbn

    03/05/09 | Report as spam

    RE: How Technology Killed Marketing

    Realize I am late to this party, but I have to chime in. I agree with Steve Rider. I read Geoff for sales savvy, and believe his advice on sales is often worthwhile. But his views on marketing and PR are worse than dumb, and you've gotta believe he is baiting marketing types to come here and rant about it.

    As for the Internet "killing" marketing--if it were true and I was a salesperson--I'd be looking over my shoulder. With online marketing, it's search-click-DONE! Who needs overpaid egomaniacal ordertakers? Ask not for whom the bell tolls...

    By the way, if you take away the 50's microphone, you have the perfect picture of a sales weasel! Nice. Time was that SALES was glamorous, too.

  •  
    67

    sothea.khun

    04/03/09 | Report as spam

    RE: How Technology Killed Marketing

    "I sympathize with all you marketing executives out there. You got into this line of work because you knew that your success was guaranteed if you could simply play your political cards correctly and secure your share of the automatic budget."
    That's a little harsh don't you think.

  •  
    68

    Geoffrey James, Sales Machine

    04/03/09 | Report as spam

    RE: How Technology Killed Marketing

    Sothea: Yeah, you're right, it's probably a bit harsh. But applicable in some cases.

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