Top 10 Reasons Sales Hates Marketing

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  1

  vaishalip

  09/16/09 | Report as spam

  RE: Top 10 Reasons Sales Hates Marketing

  I think the relationship between sales and marketing is very much dependant on the types of personalities in both teams. If sales can appreciate the added value of marketing and marketing can appreciate the knowledge that the sales team can add to strategy then there shouldn't be any need for 'hate'.

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  2

  NCWATKIS

  09/16/09 | Report as spam

  RE: Top 10 Reasons Sales Hates Marketing

  In Britain, the Chartered Institute of Marketing defines marketing as :"the management of all those activities which anticipate and satisfy customer demand profitably". Thus marketing in Britain, includes the activity of Sales, which is the executive arm of marketing. The CMO should therefore control both the sales function and the sales support function(which in the USA is called marketing). The purpose of marketing (in the British sense) is to produce sustainable profitable income for the business. Sales support have to direct and support the sales team who have to close the sale. Both are reliant on one another to maximize effieciency.
  Perhaps we need a new term to replace that of Marketing, to include sales and sales support to produce sustainable profitable revenue, by anticipating and satisfying customer demand?

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  3

  Ian P

  09/16/09 | Report as spam

  RE: Top 10 Reasons Sales Hates Marketing

  NCWATKIS
  I can point to dozens of UK companies who believe that marketing is the lead function. They usually sell direct to consumers and rely on web sales strategies and telephone complaints processes. These are generally the most unpopular companies in the UK. Utilities, telephone, rail, air travel and so-on. Lots of glamour-led promise and short on delivery.
  The CIM, like many other pseudo-professional organisations is simply a glee club for people who think they control the way business is run.
  I agree with Geoffrey, Marketing should be a technical support function for sales pros, not their masters.

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  4

  Geoffrey James, Sales Machine

  09/16/09 | Report as spam

  RE: Top 10 Reasons Sales Hates Marketing

  Re Note 2:
  Quote: the Chartered Institute of Marketing defines marketing as :"the management of all those activities which anticipate and satisfy customer demand profitably".
  
  Actually, that's just the definition they release to the outside world. Once you actually join that organization, you find out that they secretly define marketing as "the management of everything in the company. Brouhahaha!!!!" During the official meetings, the evil laugh at the end must be delivered while rubbing one's hands together.

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  5

  vaishalip

  09/16/09 | Report as spam

  RE: Top 10 Reasons Sales Hates Marketing

  I think the role and function of marketing varies in different industries. As a Product Marketing professional, my role is to support a sales team with all the information they need to achieve our commerical goals. I don't get any commission on any new products that I package and deliver to the sales team. The sales team do if they sell it.
  Within my team, we have a Brand Marketing Manager who is responsible for collating consumer information to help drive our product strategies and which i use to help deliver the neccesary sales arguments and commercial positioning of products.
  So to say that the entire marketing function should "be a technical support function for sales pros" is not one I agree with. There are clear elements of the marketing function e.g. setting a strategy for a product/service to keep it competitive over a defiened time period, which I believe is not a 'support function' just to the sales team.
  As I see it, the sales team are there to sell the product, the marketing team is there to set a strategy for the product AND support the sales team with information they need to sell it.

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  6

  Geoffrey James, Sales Machine

  09/16/09 | Report as spam

  RE: Top 10 Reasons Sales Hates Marketing

  Re Note 5:
  Quote: "set a strategy for the product"
  
  Unfortunately, most marketing professionals lack this capability. First, they don't listen to customers, so they generally have a weak idea (or any idea at all) of the needs of the customer. Second, they lack the technical background to understand what's possible. That's why engineering groups and sales groups alive see the "product strategy" function of marketing as something of a bad joke.

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  7

  middleaged

  09/16/09 | Report as spam

  RE: Top 10 Reasons Sales Hates Marketing

  Re Number 2
  
  You shouldn't have taken the bait, Geoffrey runs this post every couple of months just for amusement.
  
  BTW, given that you are defending marketing, a few paragraphs would have been helpful to break up the blog.
  
  

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  8

  RobertaB

  09/16/09 | Report as spam

  RE: Top 10 Reasons Sales Hates Marketing

  I studied marketing at university, but started selling at 13. I beleive that sales and marketing are like the Puch Me Pull Me of Dr Doolittle. They are part of the same process just looking in different directions and trying to move forward but only when both parts work together. One thing most marketers in my experience forget - nobody gets paid until a BUYER pays for whatever the product or service is and that is a joing effort between marketing and sales. THey NEED each other. Love the post though

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  9

  SteveRider

  09/16/09 | Report as spam

  RE: Top 10 Reasons Sales Hates Marketing

  Point #7 - compensate marketing on revenue generation - is the only useful point in this list. I think all B2B companies should do that. That will solve the crummy lead problem, the money wasting problem, etc.

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  10

  boydroge

  09/16/09 | Report as spam

  RE: Top 10 Reasons Sales Hates Marketing

  I think you're right on the perceived issues & I have a marketers background. Not sure I agree with all the solutions but good that you're suggesting some.
  
  The greatest impact in my experience has been (which I went through):
  
  1. Marketers spending a year in sales b/n brand assistant & brand manager as well as 1 year before they get to marketing director or the like. In this year they have to achieve results, if they don't they don't move on to the next level. It's credibility that is key & understanding how to create useful sales arguments from brand stories or other insights on the market.
  
  2. Marketers making the calls with the sales team on yearly reviews, & launches etc...
  
  Nothing new I would imagine as most top tier companies would be doing this anyway, in consumer or B2B.
  
  Some marketers don't like that, but if they don't find one that does as its for their ultimate benefit & most love it after they've done it...
  
  Cheers

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  11

  boydroge

  09/16/09 | Report as spam

  RE: Top 10 Reasons Sales Hates Marketing

  oh yeah and the reverse for sales into marketing roles...

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  12

  NCWATKIS

  09/17/09 | Report as spam

  RE: Top 10 Reasons Sales Hates Marketing

  I agree with much of what Geffrey James says, but
  I think that some of the commentators have missed my point, which is that the term "marketing" means different things on different sides of the Atlantic. Sales and Marketing in the USA, equates with "marketing" in Britain. In both cases the purpose is the same, to produce sustainable profitable revenue to the business. Selling is essential to produce the revenue, but without strategic direction and support, is much harder work and potentially very expensive.
  Perhaps we need a new term that discribes this process, which does not include the words sales or marketing, so as not to upset confirmed salesmen or marketers.

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  13

  Ian P

  09/17/09 | Report as spam

  Perhaps we need a new term

  that discribes this process, which does not include the words sales or marketing, so as not to upset confirmed salesmen or marketers.
  
  I would suggest MALES - but that would upset a whole new group of people

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  14

  Geoffrey James, Sales Machine

  09/17/09 | Report as spam

  RE: Top 10 Reasons Sales Hates Marketing

  Re Note 12:
  Well, it's really not a British vs. U.S. thing. The problem is that business schools hijacked the term and bloated it out of all proportion, and the meme spread into the business world.
  
  The terminology isn't important because, whatever you call it, the concept of "strategic marketing" (an oxymoron if I ever saw one) doesn't work, because the people who are supposed to execute "the management of all those activities which anticipate and satisfy customer demand profitably" lack the skill set to any of those activities.
  
  Most marketers can't sell, so they can't manage the process of selling.
  
  Most marketers can't design products, so they can't manage the process of designing products.
  
  Most marketers can't provide services, so they can't manage the process of providing services.
  
  I could go on, but you get the point. Each of those functions must be managed (and carried out) by the people who understand that function, or at least have some real experience with it.

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  15

  Rosmalia

  09/17/09 | Report as spam

  RE: Top 10 Reasons Sales Hates Marketing

  Spot on, Geoffrey. Your last comment hit the nail on the
  head. You have got to have been there, done that - before
  you can ever be a good marketer. Without the hands-on
  experience in sales, marketers would never, and could
  never really understand the challenges faced by field sales
  people - let alone support the sales function effectively.
  
  Experience is key, and by that I do not mean a few days of
  job attachment or familiarization here and there - it's the
  real thing, getting on the job, in the field, hitting the quotas,
  before stepping into a marketing role. Get the feel of
  rejection, the joy of success, the energy, the exhaustion, the
  marathon, the satisfaction.
  
  The successful marketers I know today (well, these are
  people of my generation - the baby-boomers , have a
  powerful sales background. Having a degree is just the
  starting point - it's the hands-on experience that counts.

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  16

  LRJ-1@...

  09/17/09 | Report as spam

  RE: Top 10 Reasons Sales Hates Marketing

  I cannot disagree with the article yet I would like to point a finger somewhere.
  
  I have been a Sales AND Marketing Exec for many years. Formerly, to be a Marketing Director one needed in-depth experience in 1) Sales, 2) Ad Agency and 3) Brand Management. (Now the ability to walk and chew gum concurrently seems to be the requisite background.)
  
  Sales and Marketing are - should be two sides of the same coin. However, typically, instead of addressing the cause - lowering of requirements - we attempt to cure the effect (e.g. creating more overhead with a Chief Revenue Officer to oversee Sales and Marketing.)
  
  Incredible.

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  17

  Geoffrey James, Sales Machine

  09/17/09 | Report as spam

  RE: Top 10 Reasons Sales Hates Marketing

  Re Note 16:
  No, sales and marketing are not the "two sides of one coin." They are emphatically NOT co-equal. Marketing is a service function to sales. Many companies survive without a marketing group; companies that don't make sales (i.e. have somebody somewhere selling their products) are either in low-margin commodity markets (like consumer electronics) or out-of-business.

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  18

  DanielleEdwards

  09/18/09 | Report as spam

  RE: Top 10 Reasons Sales Hates Marketing

  Could not agree more note 17. I recently had a meeting with my company's marketing team, and I could not be more disappointed. It seems whenever the sales/retail team becomes disgruntled with the lack of "support" from the marketing team two things happen. One, a new position is created...and Two, a new "strategy" emerges - apparently to save the day! What a crock. Never underestimate the power of relationships at every level. Sales force with the customer. Sales force with the Marketing team. The only connection missing here is MARKETING TEAM WITH THE CUSTOMER. Wouldn't the results be amazing if we (sales and marketing) both had the same understanding of what it takes to actually convert these relationships with the customers into revenue.

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  19

  dlisk

  09/18/09 | Report as spam

  RE: Top 10 Reasons Sales Hates Marketing

  Let me first say I traditionally enjoy your reading very much not just online but in publications like Mens Health as well as CIO resources. Unfortunately this piece made me think either you've lost your mind or someone else stole you computer for 30 minutes.
  
  Reason #1 was the only one where your problem was unbiased and the solution was realistic. That was good advice.
  
  #10 - Acting Superior
  This is not a trait associated with marketing, it's associated with professional credentials. PHD's do it, MBA's do it, CPA's do it, it's human nature - not marketing exclusive. If you want that ability go get your CSP designation as a sales proffessional.
  
  Your solution , Im sorry to say, was not thought through. Marketing is to sales what macroeconomics is to microeconomics. Many of the best strategists & forecasters in the world are terrible at executing, and vice-versa. Your solution would eliminate many of the great thinkers leading the worlds companies today - though it may make some sales reps less angry over some personal spats. is the juice worth the squeeze there? not even close.
  
  #9 marketing wants to eliminate sales
  "Marketeers are taught good marketing eliminates sales" - No. Just no. Like an IT department the goal of marketing is to provide service to the company, if the marketing dept objective is to sell then sell, if its generate interest then do that, but just because a VP marketing in 1 company is not good at strategically aligning their plan to the business goals does NOT mean thats a characteristic of ALL marketers.
  
  Your solution is prescribing something with no or very little information to base it on. The solutiion may be valid in 25% of business, but what about the 75% of others. Doctors get put in jail for prescribing things without knowledge of the problem - what you just did.
  
  #8 marketers believe selling is easy.
  
  the grass is ALWAYS greener on the other side... speaking as professional with sales, marketing, and IT recognized credentials, sales reps think marketing is just as easy as marketing thinks sales is. (not to mention everyone in the company thinks IT is easy - when was the last time you thanked your IT guy because everything worked perfect? As a writer for CIO resources you of all people should know this.)
  
  #7 - seriously?
  
  with your solution, the best marketer could give the best lead to the worst sales rep, and because the sales rep didnt sell it the marketer wouldnt get paid. was that suggestion a joke? watch how fast the entire marketing department quits.
  
  #6 marketers believe they drive sales.
  
  Marketers DO drive sales. Marketers generate widespread interest to lay the foundation of a salesforce. If marketers gave you gift-wrapped leads then sales reps wouldnt have jobs. marketing job is to generate interest, sales job is to convert interest into business. saying marketers job there is useless is like saying that the chicken DEFINATELY came before the egg. Realize that marketing and sales are INTERdependant not independant.
  
  #5 marketeers pose as strategists.
  
  Marketeers ARE strategists. The issue you speak of (running the whole company) is a personal control issue, not a characteristic of marketing pros as a whole. Marketing needs to stay in their field of expertise, aggreed, but you should take that same advice when writing articles like this - clearly you have little to no experience here. I say again, marketing is to sales what macroeconomics is to microeconomics, its strategy vs. execution and one without the other is USELESS
  
  your solution of only rewarding based on direct profit again, would make an entire marketing department quit. someone such as yourself Im sure has heard "I know 50% of my marketing money works I just dont know what 50%" - there is no ability to PROVE without a doubt which activity generated what in marketing, so results are based on activity not revenue.
  
  #4 marketing wastes money
  
  EVERY DEPARTMENT WASTES MONEY. If you've ever managed a budget youd know people don't budget for mistakes. Sales dept wastes money on mis-hiring, improper training, etc. its called the cost of doing business. It is inevitible some money from EVERY department is lost during the course of business - it is called learning. it's human nature, not marketing specific.
  
  your solution - give salespeople the power of veto. Again, clearly you either have not ever managed people or you didnt manage them very long... see how quickly you can stick to a strategy when you rule by concensus. the company would go nowhere...ever.
  
  #3 marketing thinks theyre engineers.
  
  No, you are confusing 2 seperate elements. marketeers conducts market research - something engineers cannot do. They then interpret trends and give the engineers specifications saying "our products should do this" the engineers then design that functionality, not decide what functionality to design. again, this is marketing doing its job, without that market research the product you sell would be deplorable due to the fact it's not aligned to buyer needs - you should be thanking marketing pros for having cross-functional skills like market research.
  
  #2 marketeers force technology on sales
  
  Your solution here is sound and well-thought through - use technology to enable the sales reps to focus on selling by automatically populating the information. one problem though... that is IT's boat not marketing. Why complain about marketers when they cannot solve that problem? Thats the definition of whining.
  
  #1 - as ive said, very well thought through point and solution. If you spent as much time on the other 9 as you did on this one you would have had an intelligent, insightful <ocument.
  
  
  
  I guess the bottom line here is I just expect more from you. This sounds like you had a bad run-in with marketing in one company and based an all-encompassing sterotype on that one instance.
  
  

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  20

  Heather Goodwin

  09/18/09 | Report as spam

  RE: Top 10 Reasons Sales Hates Marketing

  Marketer of 22 years? standing checking in here.
  
  Some things we agree on:
  1. CRM systems are a waste of money, but you need to blame the Bean Counters and ICT, not Marketing.
  2. Marketers should be goaled on the same things as Sales
  
  Some things we don?t agree on:
  1. Engineers should not be allowed to set product strategy, because they will invent what they want to invent as an excuse to play with the latest tech, and then hope it sells.
  2. The appropriate term for a joint marketing and sales function is not MALES but SARKETING, as evidenced by the writer of the original article and the rest of the post below.
  
  Top 10 Reasons Marketing Rolls their Eyes at Sales
  ------------------------------------------------
  REASON #10: Sales act superior.
  ? Description: Sales trade off their reputation for being the heavenly bodies who ?bring home the bacon?.
  ? Why It Rankles: It?s a team effort. Marketing (and many other functions) act like Sales? Wonderbra ? hidden support that makes you look sexy
  ? What?s The Cure: Manners.
  
  REASON #9: Sales waste budget.
  ? Description: Sales may be a big part of the machine that makes money, but they also waste it as though it?s going out of fashion. Sales see the marketing budget as a ?jollies? budget for spending on meals, parties, alcohol and ?sponsorship?? all with no heed to return on that investment
  ? Why It Rankles: Marketing managers must justify every last penny of their budgets and there is no excuse for any marketing manager who cannot now measure and report on what the business is getting for its investment.
  ? What?s The Cure: Sales need to ask for (and justify) its own budget if it wants to spend it on ?jollies?.
  
  REASON #8: Sales believe Marketing is just attractive girls who do events and brochures, or a rest home for failed Salespeople
  ? Description: Sales are dismissive of any activity carried out by Marketing, believing that all marketing work is dispensable.
  ? Why It Rankles: The range and depth of activities carried out by Marketing, and the hours Marketers work, would scare the wits out of most Salespeople
  ? What?s The Cure: Have Sales spend six months in marketing ? not only will they have learned how their own business works, but they will need to get back to Sales for a rest.
  
  REASON #7: Sales think they are solely responsible for sales.
  ? Description: Salespeople think they are the only people responsible for bringing sales.
  ? Why It Rankles: Marketers are responsible for the entire front end of the sales funnel ? generating awareness, positive brand perception, interest and initial enquiries. We can measure leads, manage the flow of leads and tell you what the qualification rate is. Then we hand it over and you go and do # 1
  ? What?s The Cure: Share the credit. We all ?own? the customer and we are all responsible for ?driving sales?.
  
  REASON #6: Sales can?t sell without ?glossies?
  ? Description: Sales demand a brochure ? a ?glossy?? for every product they sell, because they think customers won?t take the product seriously without it
  ? Why It Rankles: Customers don?t like glossies. They are happiest with an electronic document, or a plain printed page. Research shows that they like to receive product information electronically (easy to pass on and harder to misplace), and if they do have a printed copy, they like to be able to scribble their own notes in the margin
  ? What?s The Cure: Scrap the huge environmental, workload and budget cost of collateral and teach sales to sell without this ?crutch? that only they need.
  
  REASON #5: Sales only sell what?s easy to sell.
  ? Description: Sales sell what they?ve always sold because they think (financially) they?ll get what they?ve always got.
  ? Why It Rankles: Markets change. Sales? attitude is the death knell for any new product, putting the business at risk
  ? What?s The Cure: Balance sales targets so that 100% of target can only be reached by selling the new stuff, too.
  
  REASON #4: Sales give up the minute they hit target.
  ? Description: Unless there is a multiplier on target, Sales won?t continue to sell beyond target. Salespeople are driven only by their own monetary reward, not by whether the company is hitting target
  ? Why It Rankles: Marketing (and all other functions) go the extra mile without having to be paid to do it
  ? What?s The Cure: Bonus bases for Sales should include a high percentage of company divisional and team financial goals.
  
  REASON #3: Sales think they own the customer relationship.
  ? Description: Marketers are all-but banned from talking to customers because they ?might mess up the relationship? or ?the customer might get fatigued from too much contact with us?
  ? Why It Rankles: Marketers cannot learn what customers need unless they are allowed to talk to them.
  ? What?s The Cure: A contact strategy that schedules in contact time for marketers and customers, with or without Sales in attendance.
  
  REASON #2: Sales are not interested in strategy.
  ? Description: Salespeople mock Marketers for studying business degrees that are ?no use? in the real world and they resist any change proposed by marketing
  ? Why It Rankles: Businesses fail because Sales (among other functions) refuse to listen to Marketers reporting on market changes, technological futures, competitor trends and the company?s strengths and weaknesses in context
  ? What?s The Cure: Listen, or get beaten by competitors who value their Marketers.
  
  REASON #1: Sales do not maximize leads.
  ? Description: Sales brief Marketing on what leads they would like, what profile, how well-qualified, how many of them and when
  ? Why It Rankles: Sales give them to the Sales team secretary to follow up, because they cannot possibly be of any value.
  ? What?s The Cure: Well, I set my Marketing team onto following up and selling on those leads. When we started to whup the Sales team?s ass, you can guess what happened very fast.
  

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  21

  pride007

  09/19/09 | Report as spam

  RE: Top 10 Reasons Sales Hates Marketing

  Don't like to take marketers in the field as they are always looking to validate their latest "message" based on discussions with 1-2 customers. Marketing loses sight of the end user, the customer, who ultimately makes the buying decision. Leads show interest at any given point in time, not intent to buy and continue buying.

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  22

  Geoffrey James, Sales Machine

  09/19/09 | Report as spam

  RE: Top 10 Reasons Sales Hates Marketing

  Re Note 21:
  Yeah. Marketers run a "focus group" consisting of 10 dweebs who showed up for the free food, and then walk into a meeting with sales armed "research" showing that customers will be swayed by some goofball message they trotted out to "test." What a crock!

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  23

  vaishalip

  09/21/09 | Report as spam

  RE: Top 10 Reasons Sales Hates Marketing

  Well said wellsprungalice.

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  24

  skatem

  09/21/09 | Report as spam

  RE: Top 10 Reasons Sales Hates Marketing

  It's unfortunate that a number of folks who've commented here work in companies where Sales "hate's" marketing and vice versa. Sales and marketing should work together as a team, this is how to build business.

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  25

  dditri

  09/21/09 | Report as spam

  RE: Top 10 Reasons Sales Hates Marketing

  How the 'self-proclaimed' mighty have fallen. I'm sure bargain-basement journalism has its place in one's rich career tapestry...
  
  Geoffrey James: Author, Journalist, Speaker
  
  "As an author and journalist, I am committed to providing fast-paced, informative articles about business, technology, public policy, strategy, and sales/marketing. It's been my privilege to have written over a hundred feature stories for national publications..."
  
  
  
  

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  26

  Geoffrey James, Sales Machine

  09/21/09 | Report as spam

  RE: Top 10 Reasons Sales Hates Marketing

  Re Note 25:
  Not sure what you're saying here. Blogging is journalism on steroids.

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  27

  Ian P

  09/22/09 | Report as spam

  RE: Top 10 Reasons Sales Hates Marketing

  Re #25
  Please, Geoffrey may be contentious and sometimes waspish, but his blog is as good as they come, in any field, anywhere.
  His commitment and contribution to Sales as a profession is outstanding.
  One thing is certain, he has a large and growing following.

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  28

  Geoffrey James, Sales Machine

  09/22/09 | Report as spam

  RE: Top 10 Reasons Sales Hates Marketing

  Re Note 27:
  More gadfly than wasp, I think...

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  29

  Heather Goodwin

  09/22/09 | Report as spam

  RE: Top 10 Reasons Sales Hates Marketing

  @21 and 22 any marketer worth their salt would be able to tell you conversion rates from target to prospect to sale and aftersell.
  
  They would also be testing the leads base for intended increase or decrease in intended spend in your sector, changes in perception of your company (brand) and per cent of overall budget likely to be spent with your company vs competitors. In this way, the funnel can be valued.
  
  Your observations are uninformed at best and ungentlemanly at worst.