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Let's Fix Marketing. For Good.

May 9th, 2007 @ 5:04 am

Categories: General

Tags: Marketing, Market Research, Sales, B2B, Let, Geoffrey James

In business-to-business (B2B) firms, the legendary conflict between sales and marketing stems from a difference of opinion about what marketing should be doing.  Most marketing professionals believe that they should primarily be concerned with market research, building brand equity and creating marketing materials.  Most sales professionals believe that marketing should be generating qualified sales leads.

This is part of the blog where I'm supposed to be diplomatic and politically correct, and write some yada-yada-yada about teamwork and respecting differences, etc., etc. 

Forget that. Here's the honest truth: Marketing is dead wrong; Sales is dead right. In B2B environments, marketing is only useful insofar as it generates qualified sales leads. Period. The glamorous activities near and dear to the hearts of B2B marketers everywhere have almost no impact on selling, other than driving up the cost of sales.

Take market research. If the purpose of the research is to triangulate on real, live customers, it can be a good idea. But a substantial amount of market research – especially the privately funded stuff that marketing groups love — is generally accomplished to “objectively” confirm an opinion that somebody in marketing already holds. So it's worthless, in fact.  And the market research guys that do those kind of studies are, not to put too fine a point on it, whores.  How do I know this?  I once controlled a $1 million per year market research budget.  It was TRIVIAL to get industry analysts — even those in the big, reputable firms — to say basically anything that we wanted them to say, even if it was patent nonsense.

Let’s talk about corporate branding.  There’s no question that a good corporate brand can make selling easier, and individual product lines are easier to sell if they have memorable brand names. But most corporate branding exercises are stupid and pointless. Example: Xerox has spent hundreds of millions of dollars trying to change its tagline to “The Document Company.” But everyone know what a freakin' xerox machine does.  Trying to "expand" the brand to mean something more than that was an exercise in marketing futility — especially since Xerox continues to lose market share in copiers. Second example: In the early 1990’s, Digital Equipment Corporation decided to spruce up its brand image by (wait for it…) changing the logo color from indigo to violet. This required the company (which was near bankruptcy at the time) to spend tens of millions of dollars to reprint every single piece of stationary, every piece of product literature, and every single product label. Insane, but typical.

What about marketing materials? Give me a break. Most B2B sales situations involve a custom solution, in which case product-oriented brochures are marginally useful, at best.  As for press releases, nobody reads them, not even the press.  (Trust me on this one.) Nobody watches fancy product videos either, except the people who make them.  Similarly, TV advertising for B2B products and services is just big-ticket whoop-de-doo. No sane customer is going to bet a career or a company on a piece of information sandwiched between an ad for dishwashing liquid and a preview for the next episode of "American Idol."

So what's the solution?  How do we fix marketing so that it does what it’s supposed to do — generate better leads?  In a future post, I'll go into more tactical detail, but you can't fix marketing without making make some fundamental changes. Here they are:

  1. Fire your Chief Marketing Officer, if you have one.  It’s not a real job; dump it.
  2. Fold the marketing group under the highest-ranking sales executive.
  3. Compensate marketing based upon its ability to reduce cost of sales.  Period.
  4. Fire all marketing personnel that don’t have a sales background or who aren’t willing to spend a year in sales.

Sound a bit draconian? I’m only getting started…

 
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  •  
    1

    JohnOnSales

    05/09/07 | Report as spam

    YEESSSSSS!!!!

    Geoff, you may remember me disagreeing with you over some comments on process, but boy did you hit the nail on the head with this post! I would add that market research exists for 2 reasons: 1) to estimate the capacity of the market so you can make sales plans and set goals, and (2) to generate lists for salesfolk to call on. I think sales is more of a force for branding than marketing, so marketing should provide whatever sales needs to reinforce the brand with current and potential customers. See my archival rant here: http://www.johnonsales.com/index.cfm?fa=contentNews.newsDetails&newsID=13443&from=archive

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    2

    carole.butler@...

    05/10/07 | Report as spam

    Marketing Gone Wild

    Although SOME of what you say is particularly "right on" branding and good marketing are effective SALES tools. Research, done correctly and with a solid purpose helps to identify consumer trends, and is especially useful in product positioning. After all, our B2B customers, are consumers too - and they do think and act in certain ways when making buying decisions. They ARE influenced by advertising too.
    I agree with press releases, and TV commercials - WASTE!
    CJ

  •  
    3

    roast85

    05/10/07 | Report as spam

    How can anyone flatly discount press releases?

    Press releases can be very effective especially when used in conjunction with your paid advertising in a particular trade publication (b2b). The two can reinforce one another quite well and work wonders at building your brand while promoting specific product and/or event awareness. Pointing out areas where you personally have experienced or participated in useless acts doesn't make every endevor of the same nature useless. Insight and actually testing results are what a good Marketing Team should be capable of providing while ultimately driving sales.

  •  
    4

    Geoffrey James, Sales Machine

    05/10/07 | Report as spam

    "Driving Sales"

    I just love that expression. For those of you who aren't familiar with it, the expression "driving sales" is marketing lingo for "taking credit for sales that other people actually made."

    Yeah, that's right. Marketing "drives" sales; it was marketing did all the work. The sales guys were just mules that delivered baskets of brochures.

  •  
    5

    amykat2

    05/11/07 | Report as spam

    I love press releases ...

    ... but your point about PR in conjunction with paid advertising? Surely you don't think that those trade pubs would actually RUN your "news" WITHOUT all that paid advertising ... do you? That's a little like believing the nightly news isn't made up of mostly "placed" stories ...

    OF course, that's what makes PR so much FUN!

  •  
    6

    stevenchao

    07/17/07 | Report as spam

    IPOD example

    If there is no well placed press releases / product announcement / ads / word of mouth, how do you account for people lining up in front of Cingular or AT&T wireless stores waiting to buy iphones?

    I like to see a sales person sell me a $600 iphone to me when it just came from the truck... The peas and the pod go together. People can deny it or not, but they simply do. One goes bad so do the rest.

    Peace,
    Steven Chao

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    7

    superdave69

    05/10/07 | Report as spam

    you cut the line where it needs to be drawn

    Luckily you mentioned customer segmentation (triangulating on real customers). Without it you're sales guys are just shooting in the dark. Beyond that, there are few critical aspects that superseed hard-core sales. On the other hand, I wouldn't put out a bunch of "closers" that continually just try to rope customers into one-time purchases (maybe it's ok for a few products). There need to be some respect for the customer otherwise there will be no repeat buys and any branding will not stick.

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    Donna R.

    05/10/07 | Report as spam

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  •  
    31

    Tim McDonald

    05/10/07 | Report as spam

    Throwing the Baby out with the bath water

    All marketing activities need to lead to sales.

    Concerning branding, it is easy to talk about the Xerox's, Coke's & McDonald's of the world but what about the companies that have no or low brand awareness? Your salesperson will be screaming about a prospect that hasn't heard of his company or product.

    Product developments not generated through marketing efforts means the engineers are driving your company. Feedback from sales professionals for new product development is very weak with most companies.

    First and foremost marketing must provide the salesperson with the materials necessary to generate orders, but a major part of the materials is the right product at the right price and profit.

  •  
    32

    sadamson@...

    05/10/07 | Report as spam

    The function of Marketing

    I agree that playing with themes and colors is arranging the deck chairs on the Titanic. However I suspect you do not really understand what marketing should be doing. These are your scouts who can look at markets and industries and test messages before you waste your sales people?s time. Its more detective work than sales. Why are people buying or not, the product. Does the message change in the EU vs Asia? Where should we go next with a product? Used correctly marketing can be very valuable to a company. Used poorly, and you start to see color changes. So think what is it that you would like to know about customers and markets that a regional sales manager is never going to get to. Think Strategic not tactical. You need both to be successful

  •  
    33

    barthox

    05/10/07 | Report as spam

    Funny!

    I have recently been in contact with a 'engineer' type of company whose sales team is doing really great; they're number 1 worldwide in their field ...

    And they are right in the process of getting a real, organized, marketing department to help the engineers and sales guys to understand what their customers ( and especially their customer's customers) really need as far as product and services are concerned ...

    Why the hell would they want to do that ... ??

    Sales in BtoB does need marketing, but not the communication/creative type of marketing, on that I agree with you ...

    But who would tell the company what the market wants if not Marketing?

    - R&D? They're not supposed to understand customers, they're supposed to understand technologies

    - Sales people, from the field? They're supposed to know how to convince the customer to buy. They're not trained on and not keen to gathering information, and less so spreading it throughout the company (or worse to other customers!)

    However, a point on which I do agree is the need for some sales experience.

  •  
    34

    agreen@...

    05/10/07 | Report as spam

    Where does this crap come from and how does it get on the web?

    Clearly Geoffrey James has no idea what Marketing actually is. never let a lack of understanding get in the way of a good opinion!

    Check out ANY marketing textbook and you will discover that sales is a element of marketing (fits under promotion). All those salespeople who are bitching about marketing are actually unknowingly bitching about themselves. Companies that focus too much on sales without seeing the big picture are out-dated companies on the out.

    Cite all of the advertising and research horror stories that you want and I can match you with sales horror stories, too. What element of business hasn't been screwed up by someone in a big way? The success stories, however, have salespeople who understand their role in the big picture which includes having the right product, at the right time and the right price and using the right communication tools (which often includes the right salespeople)to sell to the right customers. That's marketing's job.

    If you still don't get it, why not sign up for an Introduction to Marketing course at your local college.

  •  
    35

    L10_Chris

    05/10/07 | Report as spam

    Good, Bad and Overstated

    Geoff,

    I really enjoy reading your posts, and you do make make some great points my concern is that you have not fully thought through some of your statements. Sales needs marketing in order to reach full potential, and to assume that all data is trivial is somewhat ridiculous. I'm a sales professional and as such I rely on the information that my marketing team has put together when speaking with current and potential clients; that being said parameters must be put around the marketing team or you will have million dollar initiatives to determine which shade of blue is most accepted in the market.

    The comments about Xerox seem a bit extreme, true they've spent millions re-branding themselves, but it's money well spent. The business and document world is evolving more and more with newer digital technologies and if Xerox did not make a change they would quickly become a dinosaur destined for failure. On demand printing is where their market is heading and providing customizable documents gives them a leg up.

    It's true that "Nobody watches fancy product videos either," but what they do watch are thousands of online video's with corporate messages plastered all over them. If you really want to reach your customers, grasp what the online community is and how what people have to say about your brand, outside of the crap shoved down their throat, is what they want to hear.

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    36

    jmbikc40@...

    05/10/07 | Report as spam

    Now that is a warped view

    Seems like this post is designed more to generate a response than actually provide some useful advice. Sure, there are disaster stories coming out of marketing, but hey, you can find such in virtually any dept. Do agree with the need for a close working relationship btwn sales and marketing, but definitely disagree that marketing should report to sales. Seen it done and it does not work! But absolutely, marketing people should have some selling experience.

    And sales needs more from marketing than just leads. They want a good recognizable Brand (makes it easier to sell), they want the collateral and positioning material to successfully compete and sales mgmt wants the market opportunity assessments for forecasting and alignment. And mgmt wants pricing/market analysis/trending. Of course there are other things sales wants marketing to do for them, but just hitting those points the author quickly dismisses.

    And areas where B2B marketing can save $$$ that I completely agree with...
    PRs, video adverts (huge waste), most "White Papers", spending on useless events (that oft-times some sales person says its a must attend event).

  •  
    37

    amykat2

    05/11/07 | Report as spam

    Reporting to sales? Ha!

    I have to agree that having Marketing report to sales is a recipe for disaster ... I have lived through the experience more than once, and have never seen anything more than a mechanism for blame when sales results are low.

    Why are sales low? Not enough leads. This makes me laugh, too. I have generated more orphaned qualified leads than those actually cultivated by the sale team.

    I do, however, agree that a good marketing professional understands the sales process, and listens to the sales team. But I have encountered several situations where my sales colleagues have relied upon me to help them out of a tough situation with some good marketing ... but a sales MANAGER tends to be more about fabricating sales funnels to show HIS boss how great his team is, whether they are or not! And blessed be the sales manager with a marketing staff to blame for poor sales performance.

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    38

    Geoffrey James, Sales Machine

    05/10/07 | Report as spam

    Xerox

    I simply must say something about Xerox, whose strategy a couple of the comments above have defended.

    Consider: Xerox was once a company with the world's most advanced computer products and a research group that was the envy of high tech. Now it's a company that sells paper and ink.

    I'm not entirely certain that counts as a triumph of strategic marketing.

  •  
    39

    stevenchao

    07/17/07 | Report as spam

    Tunnel vision

    Are you seriously blaming XEROX marketing department and their leadership for no longer being the leader in R&D? Let us see.... are the marketing team doing the research? Are the marketing team responsible for protecting, recognizing, and furthering the research development?

    I also like to know where does sales team fit into this R&D section? Is sales team claiming that the discoveries and research were theirs too? Pompus son of a gun. You sound like an ex-Xerox employee or someone who got turned down by Xerox.

  •  
    40

    ahelsel@...

    05/11/07 | Report as spam

    We all need Fixed!!

    Sales & Marketing!! Two great topics. After training thousands of sales people over 20 years and now a marketing consultant for the past 10 years, I have developed "compassion and understanding" for both.
    Here is how I see it. I trained sales people who were lousy, good and great. I heard all the complaints.
    What I have learned is that sales people who could sell and would sell would do well no matter what.
    Of course, given more opportunity, with qualified leads from marketing, allowed the "closers" to do what they do best more often.
    For the average sales people, having leads from marketing, kept them in the game longer, rather than having them spend so much time on cold calling which only about 1% turns into business.

    What I now teach when working with companies

    1. Small businesses can not afford to spend marketing dollars on branding. They need to spend nearly all their marketing money on generating targeted leads.
    2. Large companies should do both but the more "call to action" marketing there is the better.
    3. Sales people need constant accountability, at least until they prove otherwise. No company can afford wasting leads.
    4. Knowing the cost and value of each new client will tell you whether to continue or test another marketing idea.

    Bottom line- marketing does need to have their main focus on getting hot prospects for the closers. Don't make the sales people waste time that is not using their best skills when automation and systems can do this.

    In baseball, there is a clean up hitter. He bats when there are people on base, to take advantage of everyone working together and to use his skills at the correct time. A manager never puts him 1st in the lineup. In this example, that would mean a salesperson doing the work of the marketing dept. to create his own opportunity. Don't do it! Thanks for reading this far.
    Austin Helsel
    ahelsel@comcast.net

  •  
    41

    amykat2

    05/11/07 | Report as spam

    Thank you ...

    ... for lumping all of us hard-working, under-paid marketing folks into a single, useless category.

    I guess I am an exception to your rule, since I believe marketing exists to simplify the sales process.

    But make no mistake ... if left up to the sales professionals I have worked with over the past decade to communicate the competitive advantages of a product, we'd all be bankrupt.

    Marketing serves the sales process by refining and distributing compelling messages to the target audience. Of course, that does mean we need to listen to and take advantage of the collective voices of those feet on the street that keep the lights on. After all, without the valuable knowledge and experience of the sales force, crafting a compelling message is impossible.

    So, while I am a fan of the sales force, I also know the value of marketing. And so does a TRULY savvy sales professional ...

  •  
    42

    amykat2

    05/11/07 | Report as spam

    One more thing before I get back to designing this product brochure ...

    Anyone else notice how many "marketing product" sponsorships support support this blog? I wonder how your advertisers would feel about this "story."

  •  
    43

    Geoffrey James, Sales Machine

    05/14/07 | Report as spam

    Marketing and the Web

    Web advertising is completely quantizable. It's totally non-BS, because you can track the clicks and watch the results. A website like BNET could (although I think this unlikely) run an article that rips into a company, right next to a paid link to that company's e-commerce site, and if the link generated sales, the company would be happy as a clam.

    By the way, advertising agencies and marketing groups alike tend to hate web ads because they force accountability -- the exact thing that both ad agencies and marketing groups desperately seek to avoid.

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    44

    amykat2

    05/11/07 | Report as spam

    I love press releases ...

    ... but your point about PR in conjunction with paid advertising? Surely you don't think that those trade pubs would actually RUN your "news" WITHOUT all that paid advertising ... do you? That's a little like believing the nightly news isn't made up of mostly "placed" stories ...

    OF course, that's what makes PR so much FUN!

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    45

    ani118@...

    05/12/07 | Report as spam

    I just loved it!

    I just loved reading the article. Funny enough, it is very well supported, yet absolutely lacks sense.
    Coming from a sales background, I stand behind the statement that Sales has no idea of the big picture and it is totally lost without the guidance of the Marketing. I desagree as well that Marketing should report to Sales, actually a Marketer would be the only professional who would have the skills, the background, the capabilities to switch to business development and succeed in managing and entire company whithout too much hassles. So many CEO's recently come from marketing background - why is that?
    Generating leads for the Sales, dont make me laugh, if a sales person who has all the directions, the tools, the support cant get his/hers own leads and work them out, then they should consider changing their career. Seriously.
    Marketing priorities develop and N1 is is to make money, not to act as a PR of a Sales Executive; there are plenty of mid-management Staff to do that.

  •  
    46

    repzac

    05/14/07 | Report as spam

    Been there, done that - failed!

    OK, marketing is an easy target, compared to the wallet-driven stars in sales who get to consumate the deal. But, sales still needs differentiated products that anticipate customer needs and deliver valued solutions. No amount of six-step cha-cha will sell a dumb product where there is no need.

    Putting marketing in sales is an old rubric that almost always fails. Resources get tasked with meeting the quarter and the competition eventually eats your lunch. Toyota has marketing. I'm pretty sure that the big 3 don't - or at least it's not evident. Want to beat your brains out discounting? Let sales run the show and you'll be on your way.

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    47

    stevenchao

    07/17/07 | Report as spam

    James WHO?

    This blog is bloging at its ultimate hype. A typical ***** session when a group of loud and stupid sales individuals get together.

    There are always a few real bad companies. However there are a few good ones. Occasionally there are a few great ones. Sales and marketing must work together. It is the ultimate symbiotic relationship. You show me a company without a marketing leadership, I will show you their lack of maxumizing their product/service and vision. This company will most like live from day to the next on the whims of their up and down sales.

    You show me a company without sales ability, but full of marketing concepts. I will shouw you a company full of pipe dreams ready to go under when their investors realize their loss on ROI.

    So the bottom line is simply, shame on you James for writing a ignorant piece of complaints or a personalized editorial without facts. More importantly shame on BNET for posting this as an article instead of posting it as an opinion.

  •  
    48

    sgmc

    07/18/07 | Report as spam

    Agreed. Shame on BNET

    This "article" sounds too much like the ranting and raving of a scorned sales guy who couldn't pull his weight.

    I'm surprised and disappointed that this site posted this as an article as opposed to a personal blog/opinion.

    I worry about the small business owner that's looking for answers and reads this man's unfortunate "articles".

  •  
    49

    Geoffrey James, Sales Machine

    07/25/07 | Report as spam

    Uhh... this is a blog

    What made you think this isn't a blog?

  •  
    50

    adhikari.jayanta@...

    07/18/07 | Report as spam

    Mr james...think..before you write...

    Geoffrey James..do you really know what marketing is?? and what are the difference between Marketing and sales? if we say marketing as a bigger set then sale is a smaller subset of this. Though i agree with your point that in B2B spending on commercials, TVC is a waste. But what about branding? positioning? As you already know that the customer base is very different than your FMCG products...in B2B..so if your brand name is not good enough you'll not get good prospects to whom you can convert to customers. Also in B2B segment though the no. of companies are less but brand value has a greater role to play. If I want to buy a server for my organization...then automatically IBM's name will come to my mind...not TOSHIBA,..HP..or any others...dats the power of the brand..now can your sales team really make your brand visible to the market space? They are only thee to generate sales and to help customers. but the main work, customize product, helping customer to select the right product..positioning and segmenting your target customers that is the job of a marketing professional...not YOUR SALES TEAM....

  •  
    51

    alekp

    07/18/07 | Report as spam

    One very important issue overlooked

    One very important element of Marketing I think both of you overlooked: Product Development.
    It is (among the top players) or at least should be (among the rest) the core department that creates and sells products/services. It encompases the whole process of product development - lifecycle management - withdrawal, or more concretely what is sold by Sales, advertised by Marketing Communication, provided and supported by Services and technically developed by R&D (departments). In essence all of these departments are positioned around PD (or Marketing in general), not the other way around.
    Now, don't get me wrong, I don't think that any department is less important but before bashing "Marketing" in general, all aspects should be considered, not only Marketing communication or the advertising aspect which is, I admit, mostly visable but surely not the most important.
    P.S. I agree that experience in sales is essential for any marketing professional.

  •  
    52

    Geoffrey James, Sales Machine

    07/25/07 | Report as spam

    IBM and Branding

    Your example proves the opposite of your point. IBM's "brand" is based upon the performance of IBM's sales executives, who are the best in the business.

    IBM Marketing has been a joke for decades; they have a reputation for being extraordinarily obtuse and basically cocking up everything in which they get involved. (E.g. Lotus Notes.)

    Case in point: IBM Marketing "owned" IBM's PC business. The designs were industry standard (so no R&D), the manufacturing was outsourced (so no MEs), and the PCs sold almost exclusively through indirect channels (so no direct sales force).

    IBM Marketing was entirely responsible for IBM's PC business, which was a a massive money-loser for decades, before IBM finally sold it off.

    Your mistake is that you think that Marketing creates great brands. Wrong, wrong, wrong. Great products and great service create great brands. Marketing folk, in general, are simply leeches who latch onto pre-existing success and loudly claim it for their own.

    As one marketing toad once told me (when I was a fellow toad): "For marketing, success comes from finding a parade and getting in front of it with a flag." And that's what most marketing folk do.

  •  
    53

    ktmarketing

    01/06/09 | Report as spam

    RE: Let???s Fix Marketing. For Good.

    Take this post down!
    I just came across this blog post and signed up specifically to address it even though this discussion is over a year old. If this post isn't taken off the site, then I have no choice but to respond to it with a huge disagreement.

    This blog post gives a blunt perspective of some (not all) sales professionals out there. This author is advocating getting rid of all marketing activities except creating leads for sales.

    A good sales person is wise enough to know that without any kind of marketing, the job gets much harder. You have to be strategic about what you're selling and take the advantage away from competitors! The most successful sales people I've known are tight with marketing departments and use the tools provided. Those that don't get left behind.

    As a successful marketing professional for over seven years now, I have come across this exact attitude and it's so discouraging.

    This guy is a typical sales bully who's rant about how useless marketing is completely outrageous and ignorant. He's rude and offensive to anyone with creative marketing talents...and that includes quite a few highly skilled professionals out there who have spent years perfecting their craft such as graphic designers, writers, events staff, PR reps, Web designers, and marketing executives.

    He even suggests at one point that marketing is not concerned with ROI and measureables because they're more interested in taking all the glory for themselves. This is a childish view on business and industry based on one person's twisted perspective. In fact, marketing is not an exact science, and there's nothing wrong with that. Take it away and you'll soon figure out who the winners and losers really are.

    If you read toward the middle of the comments, there are some sensible people arguing with him that he doesn't know what the hell he's talking about. One comment even suggests to the readers that the company that placed the online ads on the same page might not like the blog very much. haha! So true!

    It's too bad that this garbage has a place to be published and stay online until taken down. Talk about a waste of communication.

  •  
    54

    Geoffrey James, Sales Machine

    01/06/09 | Report as spam

    RE: Let???s Fix Marketing. For Good.

    Quote: If this post isn't taken off the site, then I have no choice but to respond to it with a huge disagreement.

    Gee, I'm absolutely terrified of this prospect and beg you not to disagree with me. Please, please, pu-leeeeeeze!!!! I can't handle controversy and just want EVERYBODY to be happy, happy, happy with everything I write. Can't we all just get along???

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  • Blogger Thumbnail Geoffrey James Geoffrey James has sold and written hundreds of features, articles and columns for national publications including Wired, Men's Health, Business 2.0, SellingPower, Brand World, Computer Gaming World, CIO, The New York Times and (of course) BNET. He is the author of seven books, including Business Wisdom of the Electronic Elite (translated into seven languages and selected by four book clubs), and The Tao of Programming (widely quoted on the Web as a "canonical book of... more »

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