Why Are You Complaining?

BNET TalkbackShare your ideas and expertise on this topic

Subscribe to this discussion via Email or RSS

•  
  1

  CariG57

  07/02/08 | Report as spam

  why are you complaining?

  TOUCHEE!!! or however it is spelled.
  I agree 100%, this persons manager is a 8-10 on a scale of 1-10 in reference to some managers I have had to put up with!!!
  please have some "cheese" with that whine!!!

•  
  2

  jessicagartin

  07/02/08 | Report as spam

  RE: Why Are You Complaining?

  While I agree that there are worse cases out there, one thing I will agree with is that taking credit for an staffer's idea isn't exactly honest, and it definitely does nothing for morale! Now, if by taking ownership you mean buying into the idea and working with staff to see it happen, that's fine, but saying that since a staffer works for the boss, the staff's ideas are his own is ridiculous. Here's some advice-if you have what you think is a great idea and don't trust your boss to give you any of the credit for it, include his or her boss in the original memo, e-mail, etc. And if your boss is the owner, CEO, etc., they probably got there by stealing ideas like yours the whole way. And if it seems like I have little sympathy for the bosses of the world, it's because I don't. You're the boss, you should have broad shoulders by now.

•  
  3

  Geoffrey James, Sales Machine

  07/02/08 | Report as spam

  Bosses versus peers

  Yeah, it's not great for morale when the boss fails to publicly thank the staff. However, idea stealing is a much bigger problem when it's a peer doing the stealing. In any case, what's important isn't whether the staff is getting credit with the boss's boss, but whether the staff is being appropriately rewarded and whether the boss is looking out for his staff and helping them develop their own careers.

•  
  4

  Melpo

  07/02/08 | Report as spam

  RE: Why Are You Complaining?

  Geoffrey,
  
  As usual I like your fresh approach. You don't sound like an HR manager trying to placate an employee whose feathers have been ruffled.
  
  That said, I think bosses should pay attention. While this writer may not realize how bad it can be, many of the things he complains about would drive down morale of any group. For example, if the boss is truly taking credit for ideas, it's not surprising that the staffer feels like they aren't getting the recognition they deserve.
  
  I have worked in an organization where managers were actually encouraged to take credit for their staff's ideas. It was an informal but very real part of the management culture. It was also a very big organization with a very deep hierarchy where everyone's value was questionned on a daily basis. For many managers in this org, not "owning" the idea was career suicide.
  
  All the best!
  
  Melissa

•  
  5

  LWeller2

  07/02/08 | Report as spam

  Why are you complaining about complaining?

  According to this article, so long as you're wading in shallow water and the piranhas are eating only your feet, you shouldn't complain because other people are in much deeper water.
  
  While I agree that we should analyze our situation from other angles/possibilities, this doesn't mean that bosses or anyone else should get away with a little bit because other people are much worse. In particular, stealing ideas is wrong. What is appropriate is for the "boss" to present an idea as coming from his department or group. But if he states or implies an idea is his and his alone, he has crossed the line.
  
  If (when) I own my own company, it will be made clear that ideas are the property of the individuals who originates them.
  
  If you want to keep the best of the best, you MUST take ethics seriously.
  
  Only little people steal ideas. You don't want to keep these people.

•  
  6

  Geoffrey James, Sales Machine

  07/02/08 | Report as spam

  Bosses and Ideas

  First, ideas are a dime a dozen. They're worthless unless somebody actually does something with them. And that would involve your boss, right? Otherwise, go found your own firm.
  
  Second, if your boss steals your idea, your idea more likely become a reality. So if you're smart, you feed the boss ideas that will advance your career.
  
  Third, few ideas are original anyway. If you thought of something, probably 20 other people thought of the same thing about the same time as you did.
  
  It's not like ideas are actually worth anything. Seriously, ideas are like sphincters -- everybody has at least one.

•  
  7

  LWeller2

  07/02/08 | Report as spam

  Wrong on the face of it

  If ideas, especially novel ideas, are a dime a dozen, why is the the boss (or anyone else) so happy to take credit for it? Why don't they just take a few minutes and come up with their own original, highly valueable ideas?
  
  Second, an idea isn't more likely to go anywhere because the boss decides to take credit for himself. If it's a good idea, it will travel with the originator's name still attached to it.
  
  Third, ask an intellectual property lawyer if ideas are worth anything. I have and they absolutely are. If an idea has value on the face of it (such as a high concept idea) and someone tries to run off with it, they can be sued if it devalues the original owner's intellectual property.
  
  Like I said, only the little people steal ideas.

•  
  8

  LWeller2

  07/02/08 | Report as spam

  Furthermore

  If the "boss" or anyone else derives monetary (such as a bonus or promotion) or other valuable benefits by presenting someone else's idea as their own, I would bet they could be held legally accountable for theft of intellectual property.
  
  When I have a company, if anyone tries stealing someone else's idea, they'll either be demoted to the janitor's assistant's assistant or be booted out on their little person rump.

•  
  9

  Geoffrey James, Sales Machine

  07/02/08 | Report as spam

  Unfortunately...

  ...you are confused about the meaning of intellectual property.
  
  The minute you sign an employment contract, everything that you "create" that's within the purview of your job belongs to the company, not to you.
  
  Furthermore, an "idea" is not automatically intellectual property. There are some ideas that can be "owned" and some that can't.
  
  As much as you'd like to think that if you had your own company you'd run things differently, you wouldn't have a company very long if tried to run things that way.

•  
  10

  LWeller2

  07/03/08 | Report as spam

  Fortunately

  You are a bit mixed up. It is the right of a company to use an idea that you are obviously offering up to them. We are talking about protecting your intellectual rights within a company. Meaning that if you have an idea that the company uses, you - not your boss or another employee - should be given the rewards of any are forthcoming. To receive those rewards, you have to protect your rights as the originator of the idea. If someone steals your intellectual property and the company rewards them, you very likely have a lawsuit against that individual.
  
  As stated, I would never allow such theft in my own company and if it happened, I'd kick out the thief. Contrary to what you stated, such companies would thrive because the best would be rewarded. The best would stick around. The little people would go elsewhere.

•  
  11

  kjsteigely

  07/03/08 | Report as spam

  Bring in the lawyers

  I love it when someone brings in lawyers. It shows that rather than taking your idea and making it better, you would rather spend money on legal fees and make the lawyers richer.
  
  Anyways, most good ideas have been "stolen" from other ideas. Let's tie up the courts with that for centuries.

•  
  12

  LWeller2

  07/07/08 | Report as spam

  Like I said

  So you're saying the originator of the idea should now allow someone else to run off with it while the originator goes back to the drawing board to improve on his original concept?
  
  Tell you what, as mentioned in one of my previous posts, why don't other idea wanna-bees take the time to originate their own ideas? Too tough for them?
  
  As to stollen ideas: once ideas are in the market, other companies come in and try to improve on the original concept. This is legal because the originator has gained initial market share.

•  
  13

  Geoffrey James, Sales Machine

  07/07/08 | Report as spam

  You are incorrect

  You clearly know nothing about intellectual property law. Because you lack experience in the real world of business, you don't yet understand that every company is filled with millions of ideas, because EVERYBODY HAS THEM.
  
  Ideas are completely worthless unless and until somebody does the work to turn them into something actionable. They are not intellectual property. They are nothing. They are hot air.
  
  People who worry about their "ideas" being stolen are usually:
  
  1. Mistaken about their idea being original. 99% of the time, they stole the idea from somebody else, but just "forgot" to remember that fact. The entire high tech industry is pretty much based upon stealing ideas from Star Trek episodes.
  
  2. Too lazy to do the hard work. Turning an idea into an actual product or marketing concept takes effort. If the boss is willing to make that effort and you're not, then the boss is doing the heavy lifting, not you. And deserves the credit. Because the idea was WORTHLESS until somebody did something with it.
  
  This is not to say that the boss should be sticking his name on your concept paper describing your idea in detail. That's plagiarism. However, plagiarism takes place after somebody has turned the idea into something more than just an idea. By fleshing the idea out, you've added value to something (the idea) which, by itself, is completely worthless.

•  
  14

  LWeller2

  07/07/08 | Report as spam

  Escaping the main point

  First, I've been in business a long time, well long enough to know that the business world is filled with little people and big people. And one key feature of the little people is their attempt to take credit for other people's ideas.
  
  The main point: your original article describes the boss taking someone else's idea instead of coming up with an idea of their own. This boss apparently assumes that valuable idea are easily come by, yet somehow didn't manage to come up with a valuable idea him/herself. This reminds me of elementary school and the kids who fancy that grades are somehow unjust because they believe that A students are just somehow gifted and therefore didn't have to put in much effort to achieve.
  
  The painful reality: Valuable ideas are a product of education, time spent in creative thinking (as opposed to watching television or partying), analysis, and many other personal factors. In your example, the boss is too lazy to spend the mental energy to come up with his/her very own creative and valuable ideas and instead relies on grabbing what isn't theirs.
  
  If the boss is willing to make the effort to turn an idea into a product, he/she can do so while ALSO crediting the originator of the idea. The reason he/she steals credit is to receive the benefits of being known as a creative thinker. And those benefits can be huge.
  
  Your assumption that the originator of the idea has no interest in doing the work to develop the idea is baseless. When someone states an idea, it is a summary; they usually have the details worked out on paper or kept in their heads. However, if the idea is nascent, it is still unconsciouable for the boss or anyone else to take credit for the original idea.
  
  Also, you seem to assume that the idea is only of value if this particular boss developes it. The fact is that ANY business person with a decent knowledge of business development could ALSO take the very same idea and make money from it. So the distinguishable, valuable denominator is the idea, not the dime-a-dozen business development people.

•  
  15

  Geoffrey James, Sales Machine

  07/07/08 | Report as spam

  I'll concede your point...

  ...as soon as I see a truly original idea surfaced at a business meeting. Since I know that's highly unlikely, I don't plan on conceding any time soon.
  
  I'm sorry, but if all you've got to worry about is a boss who knows a good idea when he sees it and picks it up and runs with it, you're in pretty good shape.
  
  That's 1000 times better than dealing with a boss who's impenetrable to anything except his own bonehead ideas.
  
  As long as the boss knows he owes you and takes care of you, you're in reasonably good shape. And there was nothing in the original email that said that the staff was being underpaid or were going unappreciated.
  
  Let me put it another way. Your ideas aren't brilliant. Your ideas aren't original. You aren't Einstein. Get over yourself.

•  
  16

  dgingera@...

  07/02/08 | Report as spam

  RE: Why Are You Complaining?

  Excellent response!
  
  If you don't like where you are at - quit and get another job or go out on your own and be your own boss. It is probably the reality check you need. I suspect, from your complaining, you will come up with a gazillion reasons why you can't. Everyone has the abiity to make choices.
  
  You sound like the petty kind of person your boss probably wishes he never hired.

•  
  17

  my2centsworth

  07/03/08 | Report as spam

  Stealing ideas is one thing, plagarism is another

  Stealing an idea is one thing, but stealing other people's typed documents and typed strategies THEN editing those items and presenting them as your own -- that's absolutely undeniably wrong. As a matter of fact, it's plagarism.
  
  Using those edited documents for personl gain (a raise, a promotion, the opportunity to shine at your next meeting) is absolutely undeniably wrong.
  
  If a boss/manager has a bright and eager subordinate who wants to advance in the company and he/she stifles her opportunities (by stealing her ideas and work), that's absolutely undeniably wrong.
  
  I realize there are thousands of people who have worked their way to the top using their ability to successfully and quietly throw people under the bus. I also know that lots and lots of members of the good-old-boys club have learned how to spout off enough buzzwords to make other people's work APPEAR as if it's their own.
  I've stopped whining about that kinda corporate BS and I've learned how to protect my career (the one I invested 60K in education to have). Perhaps we should be offering the "whiner" advice on how to maneuver her way through the corporate BS instead of pattin' her good-for-nothin' boss on the back in typical good-old-boys club fashion.

•  
  18

  LWeller2

  07/03/08 | Report as spam

  Spot on

  Very well stated and I agree with your emphasis on learning how to maneuver through the BS. In this vein...
  
  Never tell your idea to just one person, instead, announce it at a meeting and bring your hardcopy research/ideas with you (this is to protect against the inevitable individual who will hear your idea for the first time and say that was exactly what they had been thinking/working on (you can count on this almost every time). The fact that they won't have any hard evidence to prove this will make them look weak. When they make their announcement, say, "You should have mentioned it and brought your work with you to the meeting." KEEP calling it your idea. This usually gets the little ones to back off.
  
  Try to go right to the top with your ideas.
  
  Start your own company.

•  
  19

  Rash333

  07/07/08 | Report as spam

  RE: Why Are You Complaining?

  Cause

•  
  20

  LWeller2

  07/08/08 | Report as spam

  Showing your colors

  Regarding your comment, "Let me put it another way. Your ideas aren't brilliant. Your ideas aren't original. You aren't Einstein. Get over yourself."
  
  Then why steal them??????
  
  Tell the boss to get over him/herself and give credit where credit is due - and that means compensating and recognizing the originator of the idea for their idea if their idea is used.
  
  Tell the boss to get over him/herself and stop believing that only his or her own spectacular management skills are valuable for business success (immediately negating that assumption when they steal an idea).
  
  Question: was PayPal a valuable idea (no matter who would have developed it)? Was ebay a valuable idea (no matter who would have developed it)? Was Google valuable computer code (no matter who developed the management infrastructure around it)?
  
  Just questions... There are more.

•  
  21

  Geoffrey James, Sales Machine

  07/08/08 | Report as spam

  Well, Actually...

  Quote Question: was PayPal a valuable idea (no matter who would have developed it)? Was ebay a valuable idea (no matter who would have developed it)? Was Google valuable computer code (no matter who developed the management infrastructure around it)? Just questions...
  
  None of those ideas were original. They were all stolen. The companies that won those markets were the ones that had good management that did something with the ideas, which had been floating around for years.
  
  For example, Altavista had an superlative search engine years before Google. Its owner (DEC) bungled the rollout; Google copied Altavista's technology but rolled it out superlatively. Google succeeded because of management, not technology.

•  
  22

  LWeller2

  07/14/08 | Report as spam

  Off your mark

  ebay and PayPal were stolen? Where do you get your information?
  
  Google was stolen? You mean teh two programmers didn't sit in their dorm room and come up with a better program? That is just a fake story?
  
  You are so dependent on stealing other ideas that you have lost touch with reality to assuage your guilt.

•  
  23

  Geoffrey James, Sales Machine

  07/14/08 | Report as spam

  The point is...

  ...that search engines were nothing new. You could have built Google on top of any other search engine. And yes, as with all corporate myths, the story of Google is a bit mythical. Their genius wasn't the technology, but the way they grew the company and they way they positioned it to leverage the growth of the Internet.

•  
  24

  LWeller2

  07/14/08 | Report as spam

  Wikipedia

  Look up Google on Wikipedia. Clearly the reality is far different than what you cite.
  
  If Wikipedia is not a resource in your mind, then look up the info elsewhere.

•  
  25

  Geoffrey James, Sales Machine

  07/14/08 | Report as spam

  Personal attacks

  QUOTE: "You are so dependent on stealing other ideas that you have lost touch with reality to assuage your guilt."
  
  Accusing a journalist of plagiarism is a very serious charge.
  
  This is bordering on a personal attack, which is a violation of your terms of service.
  
  I'm letting it stand, though. Instead, I am challenging you to:
  
  1) Identify yourself with a pointer to a real biography (e.g LinkedIn) so that everyone can assess your credibility.
  2) Identify any example where I've not appropriately credited an idea that I've posted in this blog.
  
  If you are not willing to do both of these things, then I respectfully request that you post your comments elsewhere.

•  
  26

  LWeller2

  07/14/08 | Report as spam

  ?

  If stealing ideas is a serious charge, then you have indicted yourself all over this post using your own words. I have been spending time and energy countering your own statements in this regard.

•  
  27

  LWeller2

  07/14/08 | Report as spam

  ??

  I think its very, very clearly what my statemetn referred to: your own words. Clearly, anyone with an ounce of logic has not assumed that I have some insider knowledge of a particular idea that you haev stollen. Your defense of stealing ideas based on the notion that they aren't original is patently wrong.

•  
  28

  LWeller2

  07/08/08 | Report as spam

  US Patent Office

  FYI:
  
  

  "If two or more persons work together to make an invention, to whom will the patent be granted?

  
  
  

  "If each had a share in the ideas forming the invention as defined in the claims ??? even if only as to one claim, they are joint inventors and a patent will be issued to them jointly on the basis of a proper patent application. If, on the other hand, one of these persons has provided all of the ideas of the invention, and the other has only followed instructions in making it, the person who contributed the ideas is the sole inventor and the patent application and patent shall be in his/her name alone."

•  
  29

  Geoffrey James, Sales Machine

  07/08/08 | Report as spam

  Apples and Oranges

  You're suffering from terminology confusion due to the imprecise nature of the language.
  
  In the email that prompted the blog post, the term "idea" means something that came up in a staff meeting, like "Hey, why don't we discount our software by 10 percent to get new customers?"
  
  In the quote you provided, the term "idea" is being used as legal shorthand for the conceptual contents of a patent application.
  
  A patent application is a detailed document that fleshes out a concept in substantial detail. It generally involves a patent search for prior patents, technical drawings, and a substantial of conceptual development work.
  
  The two concepts are not at all similar. Almost ALL business ideas are like the first type -- trite, obvious, unoriginal, and fungible to multiple owners.
  
  One of the ways that you get ahead in business is to feed better-than-average ideas of the first type to your boss. That's the job of a staffer. Insisting upon "owning" such ideas and having your name associated with them is more bother than it's worth. Why should you care as long as your boss is taking care of you?
  
  If you've got a patentable idea, then you should try to get it patented. As far as I know, few bosses try to steal this type of idea. Quite the contrary. Organizations that create patentable concepts usually pay bonuses to help retain the creative people on which their business model depends.

•  
  30

  LWeller2

  07/08/08 | Report as spam

  US Patent Office - last point

  FYI
  
  

  "If a first person furnishes all of the ideas to make an invention and a second person employs the first person or furnishes the money for building and testing the invention, should the patent application be filed by the first and second persons jointly?

  
  

  "No. The application must be signed by the true inventor, and filed in the USPTO, in the inventor???s name. This is the person who furnishes the ideas (e.g. the first person in the above fact pattern), not the employer or the person who furnishes the money."

•  
  31

  LWeller2

  07/08/08 | Report as spam

  For the idea people out there

  From How Stuff Works
  
  "Patents are a government's way of giving an inventor ownership of his or her creation. For a certain period of time, patent-holders are allowed to control how their inventions are used, allowing them to reap the financial rewards of their work. Patents are a palpable, legally-binding manifestation of a person's genius and innovation; they allow a person to actually own an idea....Patents are basically copyrights for inventions, defined by U.S. patent law as 'any new and useful process, machine, manufacture, or composition of matter, or any new and useful improvement thereof.' Unlike copyrights [novels, etc.], patents protect the idea or design of the invention, rather than the tangible form of the invention itself."

•  
  32

  Geoffrey James, Sales Machine

  07/08/08 | Report as spam

  Once again...

  ...the ideas referred to in the email that spawn the blog post weren't patentable ideas. They were the kind of day-to-day business ideas that get surfaced at staff meetings, like "Let's run a branding campaign next quarter."
  
  The job of a staffer is to feed those kind of ideas to the manager, who makes a decision. Then the staffer needs to go execute the idea. If the manager wants to "own" the idea, so much the better. It makes life easier when you go the manager to get the budget you need. Once some work actually gets done, it will be clear who "owns" the idea. It's the person who did the work. Always.
  
  You're all bent out of shape because you think that some manager is out there stealing these brilliant ideas that could make billions of dollars. That's not happening, and it wasn't what was happening in the email. The email was garden-variety grousing about better-than average manager behavior.

•  
  33

  LWeller2

  07/14/08 | Report as spam

  Condradicted yourself

  Except that you disparaged ebay, Google, and PayPal as though in the same category as the other simplistic ideas you mentioned.

•  
  34

  Geoffrey James, Sales Machine

  07/14/08 | Report as spam

  You're wrong.

  I corrected your mistaken impression that Google's technology was an original idea. It wasn't.
  
  Almost every high tech "breakthrough" that turned into a big success was prototyped elsewhere or even originally productized elsewhere. Microsoft is a case in point. They've invented virtually nothing from scratch.
  
  Apple was founded based upon a PC that copied what hobbyists had been making for years. Later, the Macintosh stole (through the Lisa) stole the GUI from the Xerox Star. But even that wasn't original; icon-based GUIs were pioneered on academic mainframes in the 1970s.
  
  In any case, I'm getting tired of trying to explain to you the difference between the kind of idea that comes up in a staff meeting and the kind of idea that can be patented. The email that spawned the post described the "stealing" of staffer ideas. A staffer who's smart lets his boss "steal" ideas.
  
  When you've been in business for a while and dealt with office politics, you'll understand this simple fact.

•  
  35

  LWeller2

  07/25/08 | Report as spam

  Journalistic research?

  There is something called journalistic research. If you research Google, you will discover that the Google search methodology was a new idea. Or are you trying to say that Internet searches weren't a enw idea? If so, that is too obvious to even bring up in conversation. Other individuals had been trying to find a better way to search the Internet, but Google came up with a unique methodology that beat out the rest. It was that original solution that was key.
  
  The type of office politics you discuss is what keeps a company from excelling. Top notch companies hire and reward idea people.

•  
  36

  shemullin

  10/21/08 | Report as spam

  RE: Why Are You Complaining?

  wow, in hopes that you blocked lweller2... i couldn't stop reading because he/she kept going in random directions with their argument and accusations. clearly this person has some major issues that need to be resolved, evidenced by their need to prove their immense amount of 'intelligence' and 'business savvy' to you. i pity the spouse of this person (as well as their employer), or hope that they're equally dysfunctional!