BNET Insight

The View from Harvard Business

The latest ideas and insights from the minds of Harvard Business.

Why Are Women So Unhappy At Work?

October 7th, 2009 @ 8:30 am

161 Comments

Categories: Management, Managing Others, Research

Tags: Women, Gender And Diversity, Professional Development, Human Resources, Career, Sean Silverthorne

Some startling research, at least to this male, reports that women are twice as likely as men to be considering leaving their jobs. According to Sylvia Ann Hewlett, founding president of the Center for Work-Life Policy:

“We found that in the wake of last year’s financial crash, high-powered women were more than twice as likely as men — 84 percent compared with 40 percent — to be seriously thinking jumping ship. And when the head and heart are out the door, the rest of the body is sure to follow.”

So smart companies such as Intel are aggressively acting to retain their female employees by offering career workshops, skill-building classes and courses on managing in a diverse workplace.

Read Hewlett’s post on Harvard Business Review, Are Your Best Female Employees a Flight Risk?

Unfortunately, Hewlett doesn’t answer my burning question? Why are women more likely than men to consider jumping ship? Certainly there are career opportunity questions. If women believe they don’t have as good a chance as their male colleagues of advancing, of course they should be considering options.

But a 2x factor suggests something much more deep seeded. Something about the nature of work in the modern company. What’s your take?

If you were creating a company from the ground up with an explicit goal of attracting, rewarding and best utilizing the talents of female employees, how would that company look different than today’s traditional firm? Yes, having a female CEO would be a nice start. What else?

 
Reply to Story

BNET TalkbackShare your ideas and expertise on this topic

Subscribe to this discussion via Email or RSS

  •  
    1

    EJEDoherty

    10/07/09 | Report as spam

    RE: Why Are Women So Unhappy At Work?

    Unfortunately, having a female leader doesn't always make an environment more friendly for women. Even if some of the leadership, and the majority of the employees, are women, if the CEO defers to a powerful man who does not respect women the resulting culture is hostile to diversity. A female friendly company would most certainly be a flexible workplace that allowed for those with families (and those without) to be measured on results, not "butt in chair". Again, having a woman leader doesn't guarantee this.

    Perhaps, in some cases, powerful females are considering leaving the workforce, not because its inherently female-unfriendly, but because they're considering hard times as an excuse to get out of the hamster wheel and re-prioritize their lives to focus on their family and other pursuits. Whereas that culturally acceptable for women, if men were to jump ship to be a stay at home dad, they might face more stigma. Just a thought.

  •  
    2

    randimr

    10/08/09 | Report as spam

    RE: Why Are Women So Unhappy At Work?

    A female friendly company would respect the work/life balance. It would also not have whiny, high maintenance, i-am-better-than-you female-dogs in power that insist on running a place like a sorority. Where your advancement has nothing to do with how you look in tight pants & a low cut sweater, and everything to do with how well you do your job.


    It would almost be forgiveable that the jobs themselves are pretty boring. It?s the political BS and stigma attached to females who want a work/life balance that makes a corporate job difficult. The flexibility to work from home often isn?t there, the understanding that a sick kid almost always wants his/her Mommy is lacking, and most women don?t want to put in 70-80 hours/week to prove they?re ?worthy? of being in the corporate job.


    Or maybe we just want the days back where weren?t expected to do everything to keep a household running?clean, raise kids, cook, etc. AND work. Maybe we?d be just happy with cooking :o). And before the self-indignant males start lambasting me, there has been a serious decline in chivalry since women started taking a bigger role in the workplace. And there is still a double standard that women should be doing the domestic duties listed above.

  •  
    3

    Youknowme2

    10/08/09 | Report as spam

    RE: Why Are Women So Unhappy At Work?

    Perhaps they are realizing that work is hard. They've made their point and now it's time to go do easier things.

  •  
    4

    GfromTO

    10/08/09 | Report as spam

    RE: Why Are Women So Unhappy At Work?

    What is so easy about doing it all? Women still do double duty. Working at a corporate job - whether it is part time or full time - and then coming home to another job of running the household and managing everyone's schedules. Which man can or would choose to do that?

    A woman CEO doesn't matter. If I look at all the female EVPs in my organization, amongst seven of them, only one has a family! Essentially, we can't have it all. It comes down to choices that men don't generally have to make. If I didn't have to work I would choose to do the harder, more challenging, more fulfilling and rewarding job of staying at home and raising my children.

    Isn't your question redundant? Women today have to work, and most of us who are working would choose to stay home if given that choice.

  •  
    5

    Aquawin

    10/08/09 | Report as spam

    RE: Why Are Women So Unhappy At Work?

    Disillusioned and discouraged. Women leaders in general are
    different (more compassionate and less ruthless) and do not
    conform to the mold that is expected by male leaders. Good old
    boys club still exists and women are tired and exhausted. Their
    careers are not as rewarding and they have to work twice as
    hard as their male counterparts.

  •  
    6

    crespin79

    10/08/09 | Report as spam

    RE: Why Are Women So Unhappy At Work?

    It is extremely difficult for a woman in a top management/leadership position (or any other woman, for that matter) to ignore her household concerns, assuming she has a family that is in need of her services, and no caregiver or spouse who can fill the void at home. Many men and bosses do not realize this fact. Hence they find it difficult to adjust to it. Then the pressure builds up on the woman in question and, failing a compromise, she is tempted to walk out. Perhaps we can change this trend to some extent if we make a concerted effort in this direction.

    Maxwell Pinto, Business Author: leadership, ethics, teamwork, women in the workforce, trade unions, etc.
    http://www.strategicbookpublishing.com/Management-TidbitsForTheNewMillenium.html

  •  
    7

    rwilliamson

    10/08/09 | Report as spam

    RE: Why Are Women So Unhappy At Work?

    As a corporate women what makes me unhappy at work is that I still have to fight to be heard, work twice as hard to get half the credit and still get told that I'm "agressive" but my male collegues are "assertive". In this "enlightned" age of equality, there is still a large disconnect between men and women, especially in leadership roles. I'm tired of fighting or trying to stroke egos or having to go through my male collegues to get my ideas put on the table. I want to do my job well, get recognized for my contributions, have new challenges and opportunities to work on and then I want to go home and be allowed to just be at home (not constantly bombarded on the Crackberry).

  •  
    8

    Vickibug

    10/08/09 | Report as spam

    RE: Why Are Women So Unhappy At Work?

    Back to the original question, off the top of my head, a
    company that wants to keep its hard working women would
    need:
    1. Flexible scheduling - If I have to leave early to pick my kid
    up from school, let me. And trust that I can still get my job
    done, during the hours that work best for me and my family.
    2. Project-based assessments - As long as I'm getting my
    work done, who cares how many hours I work? If I can
    complete a project in 20 hours, do I need to work a 40 hour
    week?
    3. On site daycare / nearby daycare / daycare stipends - The
    salary of many working mothers barely covers daycare bills.
    And certainly doesn't make up for missing out on that time
    with the kids.
    4. Discounts on maid service / dinner service - I realize this is
    simply a pipe dream, but it would sure take a large burden off
    our backs!
    5. Understanding - Recognizing that work is work. It is not my
    life. And while it is a priority, it is not my top priority. So don't
    think I'm crazy or think less of me when I have other,
    personal things to take care of.

  •  
    9

    rmarisbnet

    10/08/09 | Report as spam

    RE: Why Are Women So Unhappy At Work?

    I'll caveat that I am male, married 22 years, with 4 school-aged children. I've also had several female bosses who were very competent. My wife works outside the home part-time to supplement the family household income. She enjoys aspects of her work - a break from home, adult activity, a paycheck.

    But she would rather not have to do this type of work. She would much rather devote more time to activities that appeal to her personality - community outreach, support for school programs, etc..

    Work is work. There are aspects of it that are appealing to the male psyche - career advancement, management of resources, interesting travel and networking venues. Of course, most of that does not come without a significant investment of sacrifice and years in the market.

    I'm not sure what aspects are appealing to females. But it appears from the first 8 comments that the workplace is not the first choice for passing 40-plus hours/week.

    Comment 1 asserts that a female CEO will not make the difference.

    Comment 2 asserts that women should not drink the kool-aid that a woman's worth is defined by her success in business.

    Comment 3 asserts that women have amply demonstrated that they can do it and should move on to better things.

    Comment 4 asserts that (she, I assume) would rather stay home because her contribution there would be far more significant.

    Comment 5 asserts that a woman will have to work twice as hard to succeed in a male-dominated environment.

    Comment 6 asserts that top leadership positions require sacrifice of family.

    Comment 7 asserts that there exists a disconnect between men and women.

    Comment 8 asserts that an ideal environment is one where the company will provide all of the band aids for the assertions of the previous comments.

    I agree whole-heartedly with comments 1-7 and disagree with comment 8. I appreciate my wife's sacrifice but am working diligently to improve my earnings so that my gifted wife can have more freedom to pursue her passions of family and community, contributing in a way that I am incapable but very much admire and appreciate and believe is important for our family, work, and community. If that passion led her to engage with a business whose interests matched hers, or to start up a business where she could freely showcase and market her talents, I would support her with that as well.

    Successful careers are secured by those who have gotten there by following their passions and finding the optimum medium in which to operate. Women (and men) should not feel like this can only be accomplished in the workplace.

  •  
    10

    Lesley.Whitteker

    10/08/09 | Report as spam

    RE: Why Are Women So Unhappy At Work?

    It's great to see this topic getting air and I agree with almost all comments re flexibility etc. But I also think there is a fundamentally different paradigm that can exist in female-oriented workplaces and it takes us away from the whole aggressive, money and progress-oriented approach to work - it is collaborative, nurturing, fun approach which while achieving goals and earning a living, isn't centred or structured the same way - its like a circle not a hierarchy and goes to heart of our culture - like the Gaia paradigm in environmental studies. It is so foreign to our male dominated culture that we would have trouble establishing it I suspect! I was fortunate to work once in this way - at a family planning clinic - so I know it can work. Interestingly many men I suspect would rather work that way too.

  •  
    11

    selfishy_me@...

    10/08/09 | Report as spam

    RE: Why Are Women So Unhappy At Work?

    I don't know but I find that women in high powerful positions are no different than the men who hold similar positions; they are just as corrupt, dishonest, and petty. happy

  •  
    12

    amcgowan@...

    10/08/09 | Report as spam

    RE: Why Are Women So Unhappy At Work?

    I am not a woman, but as it happens my wife is. She tells me that women are generally more unhappy at work because they tend to get paid less for the same level of effort, and tend to have fewer opportunities for advancement (or, depending on the organization, they can advance to a certain level and no higher). I can see where that might make somebody unhappy.

    Other than that, I'll bet the work/life balance thing would make me just as unhappy as anybody else - male or female - except that I don't think about it much. I recognize the argument that I have the luxury of not having to think about it, whereas a woman has a biological imperative to think about it because of the way child-rearing works. But I reserve the right to be unhappy about my work/life balance too!

  •  
    13

    scott.ager@...

    10/08/09 | Report as spam

    RE: Why Are Women So Unhappy At Work?

    Freud couldn't figure it out either. Even women can't elaborate. They just want more. The limits have probably been reached for unlimited personal phone calls, emails, and socializing on the clock so there must be more. "More" is the keyword here.

  •  
    14

    PatrickMiller

    10/08/09 | Report as spam

    RE: Why Are Women So Unhappy At Work?

    It would seem that the referenced research ? reports only that women are twice as likely to leave their current positions ? not that they are necessarily considering leaving because they are twice as unhappy (as this postings provocative title deceptively asserts). There may be many other factors (beyond happiness) affecting any individuals willingness to 'jump ship.'

  •  
    15

    vanessa5618

    10/08/09 | Report as spam

    RE: Why Are Women So Unhappy At Work?

    The good ol boys club is still around and it makes it really challenging for women. I am the only female manager at my company and yet I'm never involved in the good ol boys meetings eg the managment meeting. I can't be paid to stay at home and take care of what really matters and it get a bit disheartening dealing with this day in and day out manusha at work.

  •  
    16

    mary.young@...

    10/08/09 | Report as spam

    RE: Why Are Women So Unhappy At Work?

    Women typically contribute to the workplace differently than men. They are more apt to build networks, encourage team work, support co-workers in reaching their goals, answer questions fully, provide great customer service.

    These are not the types of attributes that typically gets one promoted or even gets one a pay raise. Until these work place attributes which are more typically "female in nature" are effectively measured and rewarded, women will always feel like they have to be more masculine in order to get ahead.

    Women feel undervalued in the work place, because we are. We do have to work twice as hard to get ahead, and often we have to sacrifice the kinder gentler parts of our nature to make that happen.

    All people want to choose the opportunity that allows them to succeed at what they are really good at doing. Most women aren't good at trying to act like men. Being a stay at home mom; being a small business owner;
    working in a female dominated business; all of these options allow women to flourish as women. Until Corporate America learns to appreciate women, women will not appreciate Corporate America.

  •  
    17

    lynn safford

    10/08/09 | Report as spam

    RE: Why Are Women So Unhappy At Work?

    Women need to nurture something...including themselves
    and their futures. They need a purpose after a certain age
    which I am sure most of these women are of that age in the
    high powered positions. The realization that money is not
    enough, that our purpose is bigger and the time constraints
    we are faced with to try and find exactly what that is. We
    turn back to our families, to God, and to each other to find
    our legacy. I found myself after a high powered job happy,
    but wanting to concentrate on my legacy....I did not have
    one and being a great corporate person was not enough.
    We need a cause, something bigger....so for keeping women
    in business, find their cause and help them further it. If it is
    political, allow them time off to pursue it, whatever the
    cause is, that gives them great pleasure and purpose. And
    what are we all here for anyway? To please the boss or to
    please the BOSS up above and be remembered for what we
    gave to others and what we stood for......Help them find
    their hearts and with that will come longevity...

  •  
    18

    dybradshaw

    10/08/09 | Report as spam

    RE: Why Are Women So Unhappy At Work?

    All of the comments make some valid points. What I find to be most true, is that those who have been career driven and made great strides in their professional development, often find that, after children, the mother continues to share the brunt of responsibility. I once read an article that said that, despite women working as many and sometimes more hours than men, women do a substantially larger percentage of work around the house. I often wonder if I should write a book entitled, "To our detriment", essentially outline why women's lib doesn't work, because women actually just continued with the same roles as our mothers and grandmothers, plus, we are expected to deal with a lot of the same responsibilities and earn, work, and endeavor like a man.

  •  
    19

    twanless@...

    10/08/09 | Report as spam

    RE: Why Are Women So Unhappy At Work?

    Maybe it's more existential than details like glass ceilings. Maybe it's for the same reason so many men are unhappy at work -- because there is no soul in it, no life purpose in simply performing and competing.

    And maybe women are twice as likely to leave because they are generally more in tune with (or are less afraid of than men) their true underlying purpose for starting a career, ie to do good, to make a difference, to create or nurture

    When they realize that purpose is being lost in the mechanized brutality that's the modern workplace, they get out and look for something that's more aligned.

  •  
    20

    CbrUni

    10/08/09 | Report as spam

    RE: Why Are Women So Unhappy At Work?

    I think the point that most are missing is that the work-life balances has to fit the person. I have 2 young children and I love handing them over to our carer in the morning and going to work. Weekends with my children are far more exhausting than my week at work. I have the flexibility at work to arrive and leave as I need to fit my children's schedule. I can buy out additonal leave. And I can work from home when required. As long as I get my job done, no-one is really bothered. However not everyone has a job which can be worked from home without impacting on others. Yes we all have to make choices. I gave up a law career and moved into one that was a little less demanding, but never-the-less rewarding. I think woman need to be a little more assertive as to what they want and if they don't get it at one place move on until you do. But you need to remember that your bosses job is to make a profit for the corporation and you need to consider that in your negotiations.

  •  
    21

    alicemac

    10/08/09 | Report as spam

    RE: Why Are Women So Unhappy At Work?

    Thank you PatrickMiller!
    As one possible conside ration it is much easier to shop a CV that notes you are emplyed or left by choice than it is to explain away fired, downsized, or company demise where is it often assumed that you might have had something to do with it. Any savvy worker might want to consider the concept of maintaining employment rather than becoming unemployed and then starting to look for a job.
    Then again, the women respondents might have just been more honest than the men (of course I'll respect you ...).

  •  
    22

    GetAGreatBoss.com

    10/08/09 | Report as spam

    RE: Why Are Women So Unhappy At Work?

    A different interpretation ...

    In times of financial crisis, people are generally less likely to consider jumping ship since they need stability. This would be especially true for the primary breadwinner. And since men are still much more likely to be the primary breadwinner in the family (despite welcome advances in gender equality), we would therefore expect men to be much less likely to consider jumping ship.
    So it's not really that women are more likely to consider jumping ship, but rather that men are less likely.
    Just a thought.

    Gavin Symanowitz
    GetAGreatBoss.com
    "People join companies, but leave bosses. We believe people should join companies because of great bosses."

  •  
    23

    badcambear

    10/08/09 | Report as spam

    RE: Why Are Women So Unhappy At Work?

    I knew plenty of women in my last job who wanted to bail out. We didn't leave ? I was forced out by a layoff of least-senior employees ? because we loved our work and needed the job security. But the women in my department worked harder for the most part, and because of this were handed the lion's share of the work. A majority of the men were wont to waste time and produce lackluster results. I'm sure this isn't allowed everywhere, but where it is, there are lots of women longing for the door.

  •  
    24

    ellenhelen

    10/08/09 | Report as spam

    RE: Why Are Women So Unhappy At Work?

    Many women have a strong urge to be successful and enjoy
    the challenges and rewards of work. What we don't enjoy is
    the "boys club" that continues to exist and the fact that
    many, but thankfully not all men are threatened by women
    who are smarter and have more potential than they do.
    Women are criticized for wanting to be good parents while
    men are lauded for running home to take a sick child to the
    doctor or make it to a school play. I believe that once
    woman are appreciated and judged by their contributions,
    regardless of when and how they get their work done, and
    not by the standards that men think are right, women will
    be happier in the workplace.

  •  
    25

    jferris@...

    10/08/09 | Report as spam

    RE: Why Are Women So Unhappy At Work?

    I think one scenario affecting this could be that so many people are being asked to absorb the workload of the jobs that are going away from layoffs, as well as picking up the work from furloughed employees. Male and female managers don't want to look like wimps, so they suck it up and take the extra work until before they know it they're at 130% utilization, then 150%. At the office 60-70 hours a week. Management takes no notice. The boss thinks you're exaggerating if you bring up your hours and the fact that you haven't taken vacation in two years. From your ownership mentality point of view, you're pulling the wagon a lot harder than many others.

    GENDER MOMENT: Here is where the male/female personality difference comes into play.

    More women than men aren't making a big deal of it so they don't get tagged with the taint of "women want special treatment," or "the females can't cut it." Do this for two or three years as the economy gets worse, more layoffs happen, salary reductions are imposed and no relief seems to be in sight. After a while you conclude that life doesn't have to be this hard. Your friends and family think you belong to a covert underground movement because you're never home and never call and can never do anything social. The Big Breakup stems from women's difficulty in making themselves heard, understood and taken seriously by their male managers when they express distress. It's the Mars/Venus thing. Many women have a major tendency to internalize the sacrifices they're making to excel and show commitment...to the point that their health actually suffers, their home life suffers and they finally get burned out (because women are relied on to keep the home fires burning, too. And women are expected to care for aging parents as well). By then it's too late for the company to make amends. It showed no interest when the 60 and 70 hour weeks extended into a year and then years.

    The other part of it is praise or show of gratitude. Many bosses of either gender don't recognize that a show of gratitude or recognition is really, really important--especially when people are sacrificing their personal lives to help the company get through some hard times.

    GENDER MOMENT: Men are customarily promoted or get a raise for that kind of sacrifice. More often women wait and wait without that end result. I think the phenomenon still exists even if it's subliminal, that men like to work with other men at the top. If a woman brings this stuff up in a meeting and/or in the inevitable exit interview, that just confirms that she's a "complainer," versus someone who was super-dedicated and loyal who got no recognition or reward for above and beyond service. So the relationship ends! The company realizes the loss later when they have to hire 2-3 people to replace her or they just settle for lower productivity. Just a theory.

  •  
    26

    verycold

    10/08/09 | Report as spam

    RE: Why Are Women So Unhappy At Work?

    Maybe this was a topic that needed to be raised some time ago. Maybe it is the break in our fast forward world that is giving women a moment to pause and rethink their life plan.

    I grew up with a professional mom that worked full-time outside the home. I confess, I hated it. For a few years we had a housekeeper that I loved and adored and made all the difference to me. She was fun. She could cook great. She would do the twist with me and my friends while watching American Bandstand. She would squeeze us and love us. The house was always neat and she greeted us each afternoon after school with butterscotch cookies. After snacks, she would help us with our homework, insist we practice our piano lesson and then shoe us outside to join our friends. She was the mother I never had.

    What was the question again? Oh... "why are women so unhappy"? I think I answered that for you.

  •  
    27

    mchambers@...

    10/08/09 | Report as spam

    RE: Why Are Women So Unhappy At Work?

    Women of this generation are in transition. We moved from being primarily responsible for the family to being a significant, if not primary, bread winner for our family/selves. We were teased with the typical male rewards (power, money, etc). Some of us have achieved those rewards and found it empty. Others of us are still in pursuit of that and find the path very difficult and treacherous. Functional, emotionally intelligent women are seeking a different reward than is typically provided for in the workplace today. Women need to balance the reality of their family situation (single or married) along with their intrinsic emotional needs which is a different balance than most men are trying to achieve. So, I believe that part of the reason women are unhappy with with is due to a fundamental business cultural issue.

  •  
    28

    marybaum@...

    10/08/09 | Report as spam

    It's none of these. It's about respect.

    For a truly committed, truly professional woman who wants
    to make a real mark on the world in a big way, it's about
    respect. Comment #12 starts to get at it a little. The other
    comments are from women who don't, as they readily
    admit, really want to work. Their families are more
    important.

    I don't think that's what the topic of this report is about. Not
    at all.

    But if you've read the thoughts of women surgeons and
    scientists, or read the blogs of women in academia, you
    know that everywhere a woman goes, no matter how
    accomplished she is or how successful, some man feels the
    need to explain things to her or assume he knows
    something she doesn't - even if he's not in the field at all
    and she's a world-famous, published author.

    I'm no world-famous expert in an academic field, but I do
    my damnedest to stay at r near the cutting edge of
    technology and the state of my art. I spend money on
    training and, when I see that I'm weak in an area, I study
    until I'm strong in it.

    And still, after 30 years in my business, having made no
    effort to cover the grey in my hair, when it's acknowledged
    that I know more about a given market than anyone in the
    room, I'm the one who's expected to defer to men who
    know less.

    It gets old, this business of not being believed. Of knowing
    what the proper course of action is, and having to wait while
    the boys do it wrong the first time and then realize they
    could have saved themselves a whole bunch of time if
    they'd just realized I actually did know what I was talking
    about.

    Folks, if you want to know why women are unhappy, look at
    that flat place on their foreheads. Listen to that rasp in their
    voices from all the times they stifled a scream.

    As I sit here, a good friend across the country is dealing
    with an idiot supplier her client insisted she use. This
    woman is partners with one of the giants of our industry and
    every bit his equal creatively.

    But this vendor, caught in shocking levels of technical
    inadequacy and ignorance that she wouldn't tolerate in her
    freshman students (yes, she is a highly regarded university
    instructor) has gone around her to the client - which she will
    now lose, probably for the crime of bitchiness as well as for
    the lousy print job somehow magically becoming her fault.

    No man in a similar situation would - well, no man would be
    in a similar situation. A guy would be able to call the client
    and say, this vendor just doesn't cut it, and your job is going
    to suck if we use him - and the situation would get resolved.
    But if she says that, the client won't believe her. He
    believes his buddy. And he believes whatever his buddy
    says about her when the piece winds up sucking.

    No matter how many awards she's won with other clients,
    somehow, it's her fault she wasn't able to mind-meld this
    inferior vendor, with the wrong equipment and no
    knowledge of professional methods, into another award-
    winning piece.

    And, when you hear people say that women have to work
    twice as hard to get half as far, that's what they're talking
    about.

    You have to work twice as hard to get to do the thing the
    right way in the first place, and twice as hard to get the
    resources to implement it properly. And then, yes, chances
    are good that the week before the thing is due, you'll have a
    husband out of town, two sick kids and a holiday dinner to
    put on, but that's minor.

    But what probably is really frosting a lot of these women's
    cakes is to wake up after 20 or 25 or 30 years and realize,
    damn. I thought it would get better when I made director, or
    VP. But if she's till having to prove herself to a higher level
    of idiot who doesn't believe what she says, ever, it gets
    really old.

    Really old.

  •  
    29

    btraven

    10/08/09 | Report as spam

    RE: Why Are Women So Unhappy At Work?

    Many of these comments mentioned that the American workplace is not generally healthy for people and other living things. While more men may be alpha types, not all men are alpha dogs. There is something really wrong with a work culture that demands forfeiture of the time and energy needed for community, family, leisure, and cultural pursuits for a paycheck without security, health security, a pension or adequate severance. All people need these things but women may be more sensitive to the need than men and, also, have somewhat more cultural freedom to opt out.

    Professional work (and, I am sure, blue-collar work) has gone seriously off the rails in the last twenty years. The questions really need to be posed for everyone. Women are the canaries in the coal mine that happen to be 51% of the population. The rest of the industrialized world, including China and Japan, view the US workplace as barbaric.

  •  
    30

    mauramather

    10/08/09 | Report as spam

    RE: Why Are Women So Unhappy At Work?

    I think the key detail in the data above is ' in the wake of
    the financial crash". Let's face it-- most women run the
    family, their jobs, and the household finances. We know the
    very real fear of financial instability. I believe women are
    moving to protect their financial interests... whether to gain
    more stability in a better company, or to gain the ability to
    make more money, or get more freedom.

    As for what would make a modern company a good
    company? work/life balance is clearly the thing. I couldn't
    take the demands and the guilt from both work and home,
    so i left and started my own company. now I have 'freedom'
    to handle family stuff as needed. It's also a lot harder,
    because i can never leave work at work. Always a tradeoff.

  •  
    31

    Jenniferbrandon

    10/08/09 | Report as spam

    RE: Why Are Women So Unhappy At Work?

    I've seen it time and time again where women do double the work as their male counterparts and get less pay, half the credit and their chance for advancement is non-existent. I've also seen it where it didn't matter- he or she who worked the hardest and produced the best results simply won and advanced. I also have worked in an all female office where close to nothing got done which was ironic. In more corporate enviroments, I've found they don't care about your family or outside commitments. And definitely in you are in a management/director/VP position, you should be able to negotiate your terms and hours because ultimately by that point you know what you are doing and are going to work faster...but your delegation skills need to be up to par. So why are women more likely to jump ship? I think the survey should have had a fill in the blank section so we all didn't sit here and write our opinions and assumptions!

  •  
    32

    mainbrace

    10/08/09 | Report as spam

    RE: Why Are Women So Unhappy At Work?

    When women make the commitment to work that men do, they ARE happier. Men can choose domestic responsibility, they just DON'T. The women who "succeed" generally find ways to compensate for their domestic/community/gender responsibilites. Honestly look around, there are defnitely successful and happy women in the workforce just as there are successful and happy women NOT in the workforce. We can make supporting women's issues a corporate responsibility but the only one who benefits from that is the corporation that values the diversity, flexibility and creativity that women can bring to the workplace. If that's important to the business you will find happy women at work.

  •  
    33

    Manabozho

    10/08/09 | Report as spam

    Women have long felt freer to exit workplace

    Why are women more likely to consider jumping ship?

    Because they don't consider work a "ship;" they don't have a big stigma on "jumping" it; and they never have. This behavior is emphatically not new. The most scholarly analysis of this question is probably in Warren Farrell's work. He cites nine job conditions important to women. The fact that women crowd toward jobs with non-monetary factors that they prefer tends to drive down pay in those jobs. This was the basis of a failed "comparable worth" movement in the 1980's.

    Women have behaved with more independence toward the workforce than have men for a long time. A big chunk of the often-misdiagnosed pay gap between men and women is attributable to women's more frequent and longer absences from the workforce. Sure, maternity leaves, but more than that. Lest anyone think that it's another tiresome example of "advantage: male," the reverse is true. Men accrue much greater economic disadvantages for their workforce absences than women do for theirs. (A Stanford University panel discussion here http://www.hoover.org/multimedia/uk/3412886.html)

    Why is the departure of women from the workforce a problem, and whose problem is it? A huge fraction of women's "disadvantages" can be analyzed away by studying the consequence of freely-taken choices. When factors known to affect pay are carefully considered (same school, same major, same GPA, same date of entry into workforce, same job title, same continuous time in the workforce,) many studies find little or no "pay gap." Thomas Sowell documents and analyzes this extensively in his work.

    Women are just making a choice. Let 'em make it!

  •  
    34

    rmw102

    10/08/09 | Report as spam

    RE: Why Are Women So Unhappy At Work?

    Comments 25 and 28 really say it all for me. I would like to say a lot more about it - but they've said it so well.

  •  
    35

    tramky

    10/08/09 | Report as spam

    RE: Why Are Women So Unhappy At Work?

    This whole article wreaks of sexual discrimination--against men. I'll have no part of it. I'm a guy, and I am sick & tired of being told how much better women are than men in the business world. This is all about sexual politics, political correctness, and trashing men in favor of women.

    I have direct, personal experience with this mindset, and it is enormously destructive.

    Disgusting.

  •  
    36

    shortc

    10/08/09 | Report as spam

    RE: Why Are Women So Unhappy At Work?

    Comment 33 has obviously not read the literature rebutting choice theory and women. Even the author of that shows that women are making free choices about hours worked, not careers - those tend to be forced on you i.e. working in low pay areas so you can get the flexibility to look after children.
    I am amazed that so many of the commentators are so sexist about this topic. Perhaps if they actually looked after their own children and did the housework they would actually understand that women are just as good as, if not better than men and that the skills needed to run a household efficiently actually are also useful at work. Truely sharing parenthood would be good both for women and for our children. A good organisation should be providing equal parenting leave for men and encouraging their male employees to actually take that leave.

  •  
    37

    tsutherland@...

    10/08/09 | Report as spam

    RE: Why Are Women So Unhappy At Work?

    LACK OF RESPECT

  •  
    38

    elandis

    10/08/09 | Report as spam

    RE: Why Are Women So Unhappy At Work?

    I think Mary Baum got it right. Most women want to work -
    preferably to do fulfilling work. I really don't think we're
    sitting in offices looking for a way to opt-out. But we don't
    get respect - quite the opposite. We get worked dumped on
    us for showing ambition. And we get more work for being
    helpful and considerate toward others. The more people I
    help, the more my time is fragmented by others who also
    need help, have questions. If I close my door, people walk
    in. If my male colleagues don't offer help, or keep their
    doors closed, they must be up to something important.
    Give me a break. I keep on thinking that my ambition and
    support for my colleagues will be seen as invaluable, that I
    am clearly doing the work of two or more people, especially
    after absorbing the work of others who were laid off. But I
    see over and over again that is not the case. My male
    colleagues work shorter hours, rarely offer help to others,
    and seem to be favored. Oh yeah, and I get paid less.
    Demoralizing doesn't even begin to cover it. I simply ask to
    be respected for my many contributions. I am sure that if I
    was, I would be motivated to do even more.

  •  
    39

    ingoodcompany

    10/08/09 | Report as spam

    RE: Why Are Women So Unhappy At Work?

    Adam said to God, "Why did you make woman so beautiful?"
    God said, "So that you could love her."
    Adam asked, "Then why did you make her so stupid?"
    God said, "So that she could love you."

    The statistical inference could be that women leave at twice the rate because they enjoy working with men only half as much as men enjoy working with women. Statistically, women are obviously twice as likely to have something better to do than work with men.

    Men will talk about something as meaningless as setting a highschool football record when they're 70. A coworker retired earlier this year at age 62 after a decades long successful career in the energy industry. Yet, he is most remembered as "one helluva football player" when he was in high school, though he never got so much as a whiff of pro status. Needless to say, his records are long surpassed, some by multiples.

    Gratification doesn't always equal happiness, particularly when it involves doing a good job at something that is ultimately pointless. Women tend to look for happiness as a function of meaningfulness, while men are more capable of achieving deep and lasting satisfaction and happiness over having even momentarily been the best at something, no matter how ultimately pointless it may be.

    Anyone who seeks genuine happiness in the workplace is just asking for a huge let down. Gratification? Its there, if you want it. But genuine happiness? Women generally know better than look to the workplace to get it. They intuitively know that's why its not called the 'happiness place.'

  •  
    40

    Cynthia Owens

    10/08/09 | Report as spam

    RE: Why Are Women So Unhappy At Work?

    We've been debating this recently among a group of very successful women: is it the nature of the work itself or the way that companies are set up?
    We don't feel unappreciated or undervalued, we just don't feel fulfilled in the typical corporate structure. Most of us have stepped out and have become successful in other mostly smaller, sometimes entrepreneureal endeavors.
    Interestingly, after 1-2 years, many of these women are making as much or more than they made before.

  •  
    41

    Elraidia

    10/08/09 | Report as spam

    RE: Why Are Women So Unhappy At Work?

    Women's liberation was a wonderful and necessary movement in our nation's history. Unfortunately it came with some dogma, and some "anything you can do, I can do better" with it. And, it seems, in most cases we are still having to prove that.

    As a woman in the workplace, I can tell you there is nothing I want more than to be able to stay home and raise my little girl, so that she's being raised by the person who should be raising her...her mother. High-powered corporate women are not immune to this desire to focus on life outside of the office. I'd like to think, also, that this mass exodus (or potential mass exodus) of women from the corporate workplace is a sign of something better to come. We are entering an age when people are starting to realize all that we took for granted in the 80s & 90s. Over the last 20-30 years we have been a nation of rampant growth and prosperity, but at what cost? I have heard more adults that now say "let me ax you a question" instead of "ask" than I care to believe.

    While mom and dad have been out there doing the corporate gig and bringing in the bacon, Joey and Tammy have been basically on their own, and we're quickly becoming the most ignorant nation in the world (just check the international academic scores). I don't want a return to the Hoover era, by any stretch, but I do think that women are starting to realize that we have to find a way to make a living in a meaningful way, whether we have a family or not. Corporate greed, and "the bottom line" just isn't all that meaningful when we look at what's happening in the world today.

  •  
    42

    fumikoy

    10/08/09 | Report as spam

    RE: Why Are Women So Unhappy At Work?

    This issue is not that simple. Still now, a lot of men think women are the supporters of men, have less skills or brains, always need men's help. Also, a lot of men don't want women supervisors.

    Also, people think women have double duties - business and family, but how about single women who don't have husband / child? A lot of single women are focusing on their careers and want to be successful.

    Corporate leaders should be more aware about each employee's skill / knowledge / motivation without thinking about gender or politics, and constantly check their performances such as how they are reaching their duties / goals. Then corporate leaders won't wast of their resources and can choose better people for more responsible positions.

  •  
    43

    archetypo

    10/08/09 | Report as spam

    RE: Why Are Women So Unhappy At Work?

    It's not just the culture of the workplace that's dysfunctional, it's our CULTURE, period. Most people use the workplace as a backdrop to play out their little fantasies of 'power ' (i.e. control), political maneuvering and empire building, because we live in a culture that does not honor the individual, male OR female. Most people are addicted to this type of paradigm because they lack self esteem at a core level, and they crave the illusion of power that comes from being able to be in control of something, anything, whether it's the time sheets, the paper clip supply, or who gets invited to the boys club meetings. This is a culture that embodies disrespect of all that could potentially be noble about humanity - you need only watch the documentary, 'The Corporation'. The truth is, corporations functioning like psychopathic individuals isn't the only problem - a larger problem is that we've gotten caught in this trap of glorifying psychopathic behavior and codifying that as success, because it increases the all-important bottom line.

    I believe women are simply less tolerant of this, and generally more aware of how incorrect modern power dynamics truly are. The women who thrive most in today's corporate environment are the ones who have chosen to emulate the psychopathic behavior. The sane ones get out while they can, probably feeling very disillusioned about humanity's capacity to survive its own idiocy.

    Women have had literally millennia of oppression to notice how badly our ideas about power dynamics suck. We are not socialized to ever expect to achieve the top of the pyramid, nor even that we have any right to expect it. We are frequently raised with the idea that whatever scraps of affirmation we do achieve, we'll have to fight tooth and nail amongst our sisters to enjoy it, and that our sisters cannot be trusted.

    Males, OTOH, are socialized from the time they are little boys to be competitive, and yet to function within a team structure; the team consisting of other men, of course. They are also socialized to shut down any 'feminine' qualities such as empathy, which might otherwise alert them to when they are being insensitive brutes and perpetrating the casual abuses of power that seem to be the norm in corporate culture.

    I'm not saying men are wholly responsible for this, but until they start paying more attention to the 'feminine' aspects of their nature, the power structures they support will continue to alienate the most brilliant and talented women, the very people who are the most needed if we're going to make any kind of paradigm shift.

    Sadly, the truth is that most women are simply more 'awake' than men. Not to say that men can't be awake also, but generally the way they are socialized tends to preclude their achieving that level of awareness. Instead, they find it much easier, more familiar, and more comforting to stick with the status quo and fit in with the rest of the team. It takes a rare and courageous male to buck the boys club mentality and instead, choose to adopt a more 'feminine' paradigm, and males like this rarely stay within the corporate structure either.

    I suspect that a lot of the women leaving those jobs, far from simply choosing to place home & children first, are instead actively engaged in re-imagining a new culture of work that enables us to coexist peacefully and in balance with each other and our environment. It might take 20 years before the corporate dinosaurs' pea-sized brains catch up with them, and they may never be able to adapt unless some courageous corporate leaders choose to shift out of the prevailing paradigm and re-prioritize the importance of quality of life vs. bottom line numbers.


  •  
    44

    Kay-MaaN

    10/08/09 | Report as spam

    RE: Why Are Women So Unhappy At Work?

    I presume that the ruthless corporate ambiance though
    something a woman can thrive in is simply not a good thing to
    live with. Besides I would say the same goes for men happy You
    need to extend your survey beyond the current sample or
    population you have used. Maybe you may see even more
    startling results happy

  •  
    45

    dlore

    10/08/09 | Report as spam

    RE: Why Are Women So Unhappy At Work?

    After being laid off as a vice president, I was fortunate enough to be picked up two days later as a consultant. After 10 months of working for myself, I'm seriously doubting whether I will ever return to an office environment - after 25 years - if I can help it. The ability to have the flexibility for my three children AND be appreciated purely for the work I produce is a blessing. No office games, and the money I make goes directly into my pocket (and the government's) The greatest joy? Writing checks to subcontractors because business is good - subcontractors who are mostly women. The layoff from the office might turn out to be the best thing that ever happened to me.

    Diane Lore
    Deep South Digital (www.deepsouthdigital.biz)

  •  
    46

    ggrm

    10/08/09 | Report as spam

    RE: Why Are Women So Unhappy At Work?

    Comment 28 is probably the one that says it best for me. I managed not to throw up when I read "perhaps they are realizing that work is hard. They've made their point and now it's time to go do easier things." But let's get to solutions...

    1) The business case. It costs a minimum of 1.5 x annual salary to lose an average employee. (I can send you the breakdown). Valuable women work and hope (sometimes fight) for acknowledgment or collaborative equality, but often, one day, *poof*! They?re working for your competitor or running their own small business. They earned less (the EU has had equal pay for equal work for 50 years but women still earn only about 78% of what men earn there, and the States isn't any better). What does that turnover (and the disengagement and disruption around it) cost your business?

    2) The skills gap. Download the new white paper on the skills gap from ASTD's national site. 58% of degrees are earned by women, and they have masses of business, technical and other skills. They also have many of the critical communication and collaboration skills required in a global economy. The discussion about retention and the full involvement of women in the business process is overdue.

    3) It's not true to say that we don't know why the problem exists. I know women can be annoying - as another post pointed out, we are people and people are annoying. I also worked for years in a completely male environment, have two sons and have been happily married for 34 years (you know the managing partner in legal firm dramas? the bossy one? him happy so I get the male-female thing. Men also often find women incomprehensible. They might be right.

    But there is great research. Carnegie Mellon is doing good work - read Linda Babcock's work, including ?Women Don?t Ask?. This shows that women, in general, do not ask for what they want as clearly, quickly or as often as men do. This applies to educated, assertive and young women as well as to Boomers and Traditionals.

    Women also tend to think that what is offered (?what is on the table?) is all that is available. Men draw on their socialization (which includes things like being taught how to slip the Maitre d? a few bucks for a better table) and assume that their wants and needs might be met if they speak up, irrespective of what seems to be on offer.

    This builds into metrics. A better starting salary at 22 can add up to a million dollars over a career. Because he asked.

    Linda Babcock admits that those who ask, often get. She describes how she, herself, gave more resources and opportunities to men in her department, while she was researching the way women are socialized to wait for rewards. It showed her how and why women don?t imagine possibilities outside The System. She did this because men asked.

    Other research details how our socialization, culture(s) and other factors create a situation where women are not listened to, are interrupted, talked over, have to work much harder for the same acknowlegement, are kept out of the "old boys' club" etc.

    Culture is not right or wrong, it simply is. It blinds us and blinkers us so that we can't smell the air we breathe, or taste the water we swim in.

    We need both men and women, and we need a prosperous economy for every single member of our communities. One way is to acknowledge that women are getting a poor deal in real ways, that there are real reasons for this, that there are measurable behaviors involved, and metrics that can demonstrate progress towards more effective systems.

    Another is to work together to take off our blinkers/blinders and see how our culture works, how it evolved, where it serves us and where it is no longer working in our interests. When we name and examine the issue that damage our economy and communities, we are better prepared to let the invisible forces of our culture become visible, and to find new and better ways to make all our people happier, as they make a life, and as they make a living.


  •  
    47

    The Other Side

    10/08/09 | Report as spam

    RE: Why Are Women So Unhappy At Work?

    I do not dare to speak on behalf of my gender as the spectrum of what motivates and demotivates us is probably more diverse than the differences between men and women. I happen to strongly disagree with some views and general comments that suggest women are not as motivated or do not want to work as hard, somehow need more work/life balance or prefer to stay home more than our male counterparts. This has not been my experience which makes me wonder how many of these comments are being made by women in senior positions. What I do agree with is that as a woman I am probably more likely than my male counterpart to leave a corporate employer for better opportunities. First, men are promoted based on their potential whereas women are promoted for performance. In an economic downturn when advancement opportunities grind to a halt one would assume the way would be paved for those who perform....not so. Instead, time to promotion has been protracted for everyone. Performers are action oriented and expect results including opportunities for advancement, learning and promotion. When this doesn't occur as expected those who can will wander.

  •  
    48

    suvaugha@...

    10/08/09 | Report as spam

    RE: Why Are Women So Unhappy At Work?

    I'm a woman. I've always excelled. I was the only one, or one of 2 or 3 in all my math and science classes. I went on to join technical support, sales engineering and product management, where once again, I was the only or one of very few women. I thrived. I used the differences in our natures to my advantages. No, I wasn't raised to golf (but neither are many men) and be part of the "boy's club" but you know what? They can't ever be part of the "girl's club" either. We all have advantages we can leverage.

    I think it's incorrect to assume that because we are different, men and women, that one of us is disadvantaged. We are just different. It's when we try to take on male or female qualities to compensate, when they are not natural to our characters, that we fail. Just be yourself, focus on what makes you tick, and the rest will fall into place (in most cases).

    My Profile: Technical (self taught); individual contributor, and mentor; capable of management but uninterested because I dislike managing people and don't see the advantage since I already make 150K a year. Hmm. More responsibility, less "in the trenches (which I like), more babysitting others...no thank you.

  •  
    49

    CSDunford

    10/08/09 | Report as spam

    RE: Why Are Women So Unhappy At Work?

    Because women DO end up working twice as hard and being completely ignored for their contributions. Comments like Scott's (#13) demonstrate that admirably. "I don't understand, so I'll just ignore". And after a certain amount of that--an amount that will vary from person to person--a woman just leaves. You can only beat your head against a brick wall for so long. Men aren't socialized in our society to expend the effort to understand others--they're socialized to compete. If all your effort is focused on competition, there's nothing left for anything else. When a woman finds herself in such a situation, she looks elsewhere. I actually had a job where my boss (a guy) asked me to prepare my own performance review because, oh yeah, he had a Rotary meeting that afternoon and couldn't get around to it. Needless to say, I left.

  •  
    50

    btraven

    10/08/09 | Report as spam

    RE: Why Are Women So Unhappy At Work?

    I hate to see employees bickering amongst themselves but corporations must love it. If we all got together and asked for more civilized hours, flexibility, vacations, and benefits, we would all be better off and be able to stay in our jobs more -- the rest of the industrialized world has figured this out. This isn't to say that women don't have legitimate points, but this is like fighting to see who can get more crumbs when we will all eat better when a decent meal is put on the table.

  •  
    51

    rickk624

    10/08/09 | Report as spam

    RE: Why Are Women So Unhappy At Work?

    If I was to guess, it would be that in most companies the organization has lost its soul. While guys may chase the check and the status, women I know seem to want to contribute to a worthy cause and do something meaningful - while making a reasonable salary doing it. Too many organizations have gotten on the "lean" bandwagon and stripped all the mission and meaningful elements out of the work, in the name of efficiency. Being efficient and making a paycheck just becomes a grind after a while and most intellignent women see that they are on the hamster wheel running for the organization, but not getting anywhere themselves. They begin to question, why am I doing this. When then can come up with a really good answer to that question, they become restless and want to get off the silly wheel and do something that matters. Men don't tend to think that deeply about what they are doing and just get up the next day and go into work again and do it all over again. That is my two cents on why women are 2x more likely to quit their jobs than men.

  •  
    52

    Mike Van Horn

    10/08/09 | Report as spam

    RE: Why Are Women So Unhappy At Work?

    The majority of the posts above miss the point of the question. If women are more likely to jump ship, it's because they see a better job to go to--presumably one that offers more of these things they want.

    As an employer, I want to see not just where women are departing from, but where they are going. What are the conditions they are fleeing from, and what are the conditions in the new job that make it more appealing?

    (Of course there's always the "grass is greener over there" syndrome.)

  •  
    53

    Waleman

    10/09/09 | Report as spam

    RE: Why Are Women So Unhappy At Work?

    I write from Nigeria. We don't have these problems over here as far as I know. Women are recognized as much as men are, and even have a slight edge because so many execs try so hard not to be seen as discriminating against women. However, as in all countries, women need to balance work with the responsibilities of maintaining a home and it's these pressures (not the fact that they're overlooked in favour of their male counterparts) that encourage women to leave the workplace in Nigeria.

    I quite agree with comment 50: We all could do with more flexibility in the workplace. I am a man, but I enjoy spending time with my wife and daughter and will appreciate any opportunity to get off work and do more gratifying and rewarding things.

  •  
    54

    amnau

    10/09/09 | Report as spam

    RE: Why Are Women So Unhappy At Work?

    To prove yourself as a professional, you have to work extra hard. I am web developer, working since 2002 in Pakistan, and have to first prove a "Gal" can code as good as guys and then prove myself as a professional.

    I now work from home on project basis but surely the time I was working full time in office, it was very unpleasing experience, when guys make you feel like an alien in their dominated industry.

  •  
    55

    bibiya

    10/09/09 | Report as spam

    RE: Why Are Women So Unhappy At Work?

    This is a typical discussion for america and for corporations. Women are absolutely happy at work in the public environment, specially because you work for a purpose and in relation to others within your world. Corporations work for shareholders in relationship to numbers and computer's desks only. In a council, in a hospital, at your architecture studio, writing books...women are as happy as any and actually thrive. The culture of working for the sake of it and only for money is a male only one (and of course not for any man!) Many men and women what they've got clear is that they want to enjoy life belonging to their society.

  •  
    56

    DebF

    10/09/09 | Report as spam

    RE: Why Are Women So Unhappy At Work?

    I think comment 47 hits the nail on the head. I am not unhappy in my present job, but I have considered leaving for a better one - mainly because I hoped to be able to work 3 days a week for the same money and get better recognition (because let's face it, all companies value incomers more than they value their existing staff). It didn't come off, because it turned out that the prospective employers weren't as good as their promises. That's the risk we all take!

  •  
    57

    ecbvienna88

    10/09/09 | Report as spam

    RE: Why Are Women So Unhappy At Work?

    In response to Nr. 10 above: I agree that workplaces where women have the say can exhibit more collaborative, nurturing, etc., characteristics. Yet women can definitely be as (or more) aggressive and competitve as (than) "typical" male colleagues, sometimes in response to the work environment. By this I mean that they may in many cases recognize that the more aggressive, competitive approach is what will lead to success in that environment and they adopt it. Perhaps "high-powered" women are far more likely to jump ship now because they feel betrayed. They feel they adopted behavior because it seemed necessary and the very overly-competitive behavior they adopted lead the entire world into a major financial crisis. Perhaps they simply want no more part of that. Just a thought.

  •  
    58

    randers77

    10/09/09 | Report as spam

    RE: Why Are Women So Unhappy At Work?

    I thinks this discussion is fantastic, but as mentioned by a few people the articles covers the what, but not the why or indeed where they are going to next. In tone it almost suggests that these women are bound to become unemployed. For me there are 2 key things
    1. Most of the women I know rate the maintenance of a good work life balance above the traditional measure of success of promotion/cash/position. It's a sad fact that men are much more likely to be stigmatised for wanting to leave a "good" job to spend time with the kids or take on a new endeavour than we are. Therefore, in a partnership, it's often easier for the woman to take this role.
    2. The glass ceiling exists, and we are simply finding ways round it. Most new businesses are started by women (this is certainly true in the UK, don't know about elsewhere). Often, it's in order to achieve point 1, but that doesn't stop them being superb businesses run by people willing to take on the challenge to live the life they want rather than the one dictated by previous people's career ladders. Having recently started my own business many of the people I've met (men included) have left the corporate world to escape the male-dominated career path that has been mentioned so often above. Not because they couldn't perform, but because they can see a different way to do things.
    Maybe women are for once the lucky ones here as we can work in ways that we think are for the best, not just in ways that are expected. And all without the stigma of doing things a different way that most men have to carry.

  •  
    59

    theculturecode

    10/09/09 | Report as spam

    RE: Why Are Women So Unhappy At Work?

    ..or, from another angle: due to the crisis, many companies choose either to fire people, or at least freeze the existing number of headcounts. some companies went further and said they should maintain the same workload, even if some employees decide to leave on their own. suddenly, a team of 11 ppl with 20 projects had only..8 people in charge of the same 20 very demanding projects. on top of it all, management also decides that there would be no replacement for the women who will take their pregnancy leave.
    pressure from line managers to their female subordinates: "DON'T you dare to get PREGNANT"!!
    add this to 'equal pay day', having to work twice as hard to proove ourselves especially in male dominated industries..et ben...voil?! je pense q'on y est!

  •  
    60

    mo baines

    10/09/09 | Report as spam

    RE: Why Are Women So Unhappy At Work?

    Sexism is still rife in the workplace. I am labelled 'agrresive' for pointing out differential treatment to male colleagues or playing the 'feminist card'. I requested a days home working on a one off basis because work that needed to be completed by a tight deadline meant I couldn't afford the time off work to take my daughter to her first day at big school. Home working for that one day would have allowed both. I was refused. So guess what this female mug took a days leave and still ending up doing work that I knew no one else would cover so that other work priorities didn't slip!

    Not intending to leave and not work at all but do intend to jump ship to somewhere where my skills, intellect and dedication to work will be rewarded by a give and take culture rather than a take take take......! If anything the recession focusses minds on how short term work can be so why hang around in an unhappy work environment?

  •  
    61

    Waleman

    10/09/09 | Report as spam

    RE: Why Are Women So Unhappy At Work?

    Comment 58: Absolutely true. Couldn't have said it better.

  •  
    62

    warmsoul

    10/09/09 | Report as spam

    RE: Why Are Women So Unhappy At Work?

    I (male) think that western business culture clarifies what we
    can or cannot do to improve women sitation: profit and
    shareholders interest is key.
    So: 1. base career advancement only on performance
    (individual and team) is a must. So if you achieve same or
    better results as a man you must be awarded same way or
    more (despite the time spent in the office).
    2. freeing time for children care, home cleaning or other
    activities like those is out of scope.
    I would like to spend more time with my dogs, so shall my
    company provide discount for dog sitting, leave me more time
    in afternoon to walk with them? No, surely no.
    Wanna be swimming national champion? Well, you'll probably
    not be able to be a CEO (male or female).
    It's not companies' matter, it's individual priority setting.
    Business is business, competition is competition. So we all
    have to adapt some way.
    Women have a great source of happiness and satisfaction
    that is having children and growing them. We cannot deny
    that for father it's a bit different (at least for some feelings
    and many duties) and we tend to forget a bit family and load
    our partners with all house duties (sometime women have
    really to work same hours as husband and after clean, shop,
    care kids... and this is unfair).
    So if priority is on family, then you lose something on work.
    And vice versa.
    I feel that any man or woman working 70-80 hours a week
    and having poor family, social and heart life is losing a lot.
    But it's the same for men and women.
    For sure women are more sensitive to non working priorities
    and suffer much more any lack of balance.

  •  
    63

    laura68

    10/09/09 | Report as spam

    RE: Why Are Women So Unhappy At Work?

    Based on these comments (and on Sylvia Hewlett's many decades of research into work/life balance), it sounds like corporations, employees, and business leaders--men AND women--would benefit greatly if men would simply pick up at least half of the load of work at home (childcare, cooking, cleaning, shopping, managing, etc.). Children would also benefit from seeing their dads as caregivers, housecleaners, and cooks. Let's face it, this is the work of LIFE, and it's sad that most men haven't experienced it as such.

  •  
    64

    nhalpern

    10/09/09 | Report as spam

    RE: Why Are Women So Unhappy At Work?

    One reason women are so unhappy at work is that they are working so much harder. In my practice as an executive coach, I work with women who are the primary breadwinners - their husband's jobs have disappeared and they are the ones with the "safe" corporate jobs, unable to leave them because of benefits. I believe this data is outdated - look around at the current economic situation and you'll see women staying put and not too happy about it.
    Nancy Halpern
    http://knhassociates.com/

  •  
    65

    carolojo

    10/09/09 | Report as spam

    RE: Why Are Women So Unhappy At Work?

    I am delighted to read other people's view on this topic, I quite agree with majority of the comments with few exceptions that sounded chauv..!

    Women have to manage work and home especially women with children either single or married have commitments.Women are great jogglers, but when work makes life less fullfiling and we are constantly on the battleship to gain recognition,joy, self esteem, love and belonging - according to Maslow Hierachy of needs.We tend to drift towards what brings fullfilment.Most organisations have moved away from fundamentals of human management what makes an effective working environment even for both women and men.Today we have a very aggresive, mechanical working community and with the economic down turn it might get worse.

    As woman, I would defintely move on to what brings recognition, esteem,love. Which is taking care of and the greater tomorrows - My Children!

    Cojo(Uk)

  •  
    66

    Laura the Librarian

    10/09/09 | Report as spam

    RE: Why Are Women So Unhappy At Work?

    Being a woman who has thought about leaving various jobs in the past, why have I wanted to leave? A lot of reasons: bordem, a desire to try something new, not liking where the company is going, my manager, my co-workers, the hours, the location, etc. Because I am not tied to the mentality that the only way to succeed is to be at a company for 20+ years, I am more open to change and to try new things. I do not see the point in staying in a position that I am not happy in. I know that I am fully capable of doing my job and I am good enough and smart enough to get a job elsewhere. I do not need to cling to a job I do not want.

  •  
    67

    GMcQuay1

    10/09/09 | Report as spam

    RE: Why Are Women So Unhappy At Work?

    If I were a woman with so many telling me who I am and what I should be, I would be confused, full of anxiety and restless wondering if I was meeting all the expectations thrust on me.
    My advice is be yourselves and less what others define you as or for you. Let this be the problem of others who you are or should be. There is peace in the knowledge of understanding who you are, be it men or women.

  •  
    68

    jenyj89

    10/09/09 | Report as spam

    RE: Why Are Women So Unhappy At Work?

    Having read the previous posts, some of which were spot on and others were just ignorant, and being a woman, I wish to put forth my own comments but want to say these are only based on my own experiences. I cannot speak for all womankind.

    I grew up in a single-parent household, the only girl with 3 younger brothers and my mother supporting us on a secretary's salary and a pittance of child support. My mother drummed in my head, "Get a good education, so you can get a good job to support yourself." I got a degree in Mechanical Engineering because I wanted to be a draftsman, that's where my talent and drive lay (at the time).

    Over the years, I worked hard in my career and even ended up changing careers due to a layoff, but I was very single-minded and devoted to my job. I was married and managed relationship and household duties as well, but my job was still the most important thing to me.

    Later, when I became a single parent of a 5 year old son, I realized that he was the most important thing in my life, but I in no way put my job on hold. My son was involved in multiple sports and I would bring my laptop to his swim meets, baseball games, to his practices...I would bring work home, take him to work with a video to watch while I worked...I did what I had to do to get my job done and stay ahead of the power curve. I became one of the people that HQ turned to in my field but I still had to fight to be heard day-to-day on my own base because I was female. If I said something people in power might not take it seriously, but if my boss said the exact same thing they would say "oh, okay".

    Last year I was diagnosed with breast cancer and asked for Reasonable Accomodations under the Americans with Disabilities Act so I could work at home off and on during my chemotherapy. My husband's boss, when he developed a major infection in his ankle, was given permission to work at home every afternoon a couple of years ago while he was healing. I was given the run-around while Personnel "looked for" the Reasonable Accomodations Guidebook, the given numerous letters requesting information while waiting for the Guidebook, and when I finally got the Guidebook I found they had blew all the dates they were supposed to have met. I just gave up because my chemotherapy was almost over!! I had worked through it, taking minimal days off.

    This is the kind of treatment that makes women "jump ship"!! It's not that I don't want to work...I love my job! I've worked for 25 years, and worked hard...but I'm tired of getting no respect for a job well done! I'm tired of feeling like my work is for NOTHING! I'm almost 50 years old now and I would feel like I was doing MORE if I was home, keeping my house clean, doing some volunteering and doing what I want...instead of being disrespected, ignored, treated like my work doesn't matter, and like I don't matter.

  •  
    69

    mtrue

    10/09/09 | Report as spam

    RE: Why Are Women So Unhappy At Work?

    Record numbers of men have been laid off or let go during this economic downturn, leaving chronically underpaid females to assume even more workload that they won't be recognized for, and with wage freezes on, that they won't receive any additional compensation for! Sure, the company balance sheet benefits from this shift toward a higher percentage of lower-paid female employees, but the situation does not translate to more opportunity or greater recognition for women. If anything, we're so glad to still have a job that we don't feel inclined to rock the boat and demand a raise for our increased responsibilities. Yet the inequity of the situation still rankles deep down. We are busting our backs to keep the companies we work for afloat, putting in long hours, accepting the cutbacks for the good of the larger whole and professionally 'manning-up' to do what needs to be done. But does senior management recognize the incredible value of these loyal, competent and highly productive workers? No, they are counting the days until revenue tracks up enough so that they can go out and hire more over-priced, self-promoting, high-profile male workers to celebrate that they are back in the game.
    And you wonder why so many accomplished women are unhappy at work right now and thinking about moving on? Forget the back-to-the-nest, tired of competition ideas floating around here, we are simply mad as hell and we don't feel like taking it --at this particular company-- any more!

  •  
    70

    joannepowers

    10/09/09 | Report as spam

    RE: Why Are Women So Unhappy At Work?

    Let's start with pay parity!
    I agree with many of the comments above, but let's not forget:
    For 2008 the U.S. Labor Department reported women's median wages to be 79.9% of men's . We still do not even have equitable pay for the same jobs. I am responsible for motivating myself to do great work, but I expect to be paid fairly for my hard work! It's demoralizing to get a superior performance review and an inferior raise. What's up with that?

  •  
    71

    scott.ager@...

    10/09/09 | Report as spam

    RE: Why Are Women So Unhappy At Work?

    So, more money will make women content? Thats been tried before. Cut out the excuses, alibis, and rationalizing. What are the real reasons?

  •  
    72

    ewaitman

    10/09/09 | Report as spam

    RE: Why Are Women So Unhappy At Work?

    Are we sure all these women are leaving the workplace entirely? I love working, and enjoy the challenges I deal with daily both within my organization as we strive to improve our business model as well as dealing with our clients and vendors to solve problems and improve our clients' experience. That said, I do ponder someday starting a company of my own where I can put many of the positive characteristics of my current company into play with my own ideas and goals. I've seen many small businesses spring up in the wake of layoffs as people stop looking for jobs and start making their own. Many women feel that their creativity is stifled in a corporate environment and yearn to create their own job. Hopefully we can support these efforts by buying locally made products and supporting these small businesses to ensure they get an opportunity to flourish and empower other women to follow suit.

  •  
    73

    cperez1109

    10/09/09 | Report as spam

    RE: Why Are Women So Unhappy At Work?

    While I am by no means an executive, I certainly fall into this bucket of women. I cannot speak for the entire cohort; I only know what I know. For me, there are certain reasons that intersect and some that are unrealted--but it's during an economic climate like this that allows you to mix in reasons that would previously be irrelevant (aka, because I can!). If you're wanting to find this answer via the quest to find the work-life balance the answer might be a bit longer and complex. If you're strictly wanting to find out why more women vs. men jump ship during a tough economic climate, I don't think you can without including it. Personally, I beleive women more so than men feel they have choices. I don't mean 'to work or not to work'? I mean the kind of work they do, where they do it, and their drive behind it. I think women are more inclined to seek pleasure over paycheck. It's during times like these that they start to examine all of the factors that make them do what they do. If one is thrown off, the balance is too. I want to jump ship not because I don't feel appreciated or because I'm surrounded by toxic co-workers's attitudes (although it makes the decision that much easier). It's because I'm revisiting what I want in life holisitcally--modern girls had the message engrained that they needed to climb the corporate ladders and fast. Now that I'm on a decent rung, I realize I'm not sure this is where I belong.

  •  
    74

    marketgal

    10/09/09 | Report as spam

    RE: Why Are Women So Unhappy At Work?

    As a result of difficult financial times, there has been a scaling back within the ranks - contractors, consultants and many colleagues are no longer there. Those of us left, shoulder the load with no increased recognition or pay. When you're already June and Ward Cleaver combined, this is the icing on the cake. All of those things that already annoyed you, such as the executive infighting, team members who don't pull thier weight, unclear career paths become the more irritating. The demand to get more done in the day, the emotional load of children at work, children at home and a spouse drives us to want to say "enough is enough!" Unfortunately, those of us brave enough to re-prioritize are generally swept under the rug as not really being into the career thing or able to cut it. It rarely registers on anyone's radar as a symptom of a larger issue - women are trapped between cultural expectations of being a wife, mother, woman and being a reliable, talented, successful contributor at work. Women who jump are just tired of having two identities!

  •  
    75

    crespin79

    10/09/09 | Report as spam

    RE: Why Are Women So Unhappy At Work?

    Guys and girls, thanks for these enlightening comments and feedback. Let's hope that men in power can set aside their egos and gradually remove the (reinforced) "glass ceiling" as part of an approach to ethical leadership. Right now, many men in power seem to be good at discussing the importance of ethics, drafting appropriate codes of ethics and ensuring that these codes of ethics are observed by others, while they themselves are quite unfair: false promises, unreasonable demands on subordinates, preventing women and other deserving candidadtes from progressing up the corporate ladder and receiving their just financial dues, respect, etc. Let's hope that "ethical leadership" is a fact rather than an oxymoron.

    Maxwell Pinto, Business Author: leadership, ethics, teamwork, women in the workforce, trade unions, etc.
    http://www.strategicbookpublishing.com/Management-TidbitsForTheNewMillenium.html

  •  
    76

    lackey2004

    10/09/09 | Report as spam

    RE: Why Are Women So Unhappy At Work?

    In my experience the problem isn't the boss needing to be female or the glass ceiling created by men in the organization (even though I have seen some of that). What I see is other women in the organization creating an environment of such bickering and back stabbing to promote themselves in the company that everyone is miserable. The company itself is not the reason women are jumping ship, it is the environment created by the other women in the organization. We are creating our own glass ceilings by cutting each other up in order to advance ourselves. Women do not like to acknowledge the challenges they create for each other. Yes, work-life balance is important, equal opportunity for equal pay is important, but an enviroment where we are each safe to pursue our own goals and desires within our career is much more important.

  •  
    77

    cbowen2

    10/09/09 | Report as spam

    RE: Why Are Women So Unhappy At Work?

    Years ago when I was in college, the Business School at George Mason
    University in Virginia did a survey of attitudes among business school
    students toward women in the workplace. What researchers found was
    that regardless of experience women had to prove they could do the
    task at hand before they were regarded as competent, whereas with
    men it was assumed they could do the job until they showed that they
    couldn't. What surprised the researchers was that this view was held
    by both male AND FEMALE students! Perhaps that's one reason working
    women feel frustrated and why women bosses are perceived as no
    more women-friendly than men.

    Also, women are often criticized for latching on to a man and then
    trying to remake him into something else - fix him. I see this same
    mindset with women who sign on with a company and then complain
    that the corporate culture needs to be more "flexible," needs more
    child care, needs to recognize work/life balance, needs to give them
    more respect/attention, etc. They're trying to remake it into the
    workplace equivalent of a husband and pal. A business is established
    to make money; there is no other purpose. Respect? Work/life
    balance? Purpose? A half-century of in-your-face feminism and most
    women are still not taking responsibility for themselves.

    As for the disparity you cite in those seriously thinking of leaving, I
    think the person who said that in a tough economy men are less likely
    to leave because they see themselves as the family breadwinner
    probably had it right. Percentages can be tricky to interpret - you can't
    tell whether the disparity is because one side went up or the other side
    went down. You'd have to look at the actual totals. Believe me, in this
    economy everybody is unhappy.




  •  
    78

    The Dagger

    10/09/09 | Report as spam

    RE: Why Are Women So Unhappy At Work?

    Wow! I haven't seen this much chatter on any of the other subjects, Period.
    I'm only a Male, Son, Husband, Father, Salesman & Manager of Working Women, so I have some experience on this subject.
    I say that the Ladies, the strong ones, want it all. I do believe that they have trouble "compartmentalizing" each issue. They look back at a situation and agonize about the what if's and should be's. Life is about choices, repercussions and reality, for all members of a Family.
    In todays world a father / husband has to "work" at home too. I agree that my partner ain't da maid. However, I don't see "Her" out there working on "Her" pool or "Her" SUV. And don't ask where "Her" Money is!

  •  
    79

    sylvial

    10/09/09 | Report as spam

    RE: Why Are Women So Unhappy At Work?

    I wonder if women are really leaving more readily then men. I don't see them jumping ship so fast. I do however, hear women. They are more vocal in their dissatisfaction with the direction and caliber of the workplace.
    There is a great deal of of talk about how unhappy women are. Women have always been more ready to talk about being dissatisfied, that has been a pattern learned from childhood. Girls can express, boys are more silent. Yet, I know when men are in a safe place to talk they also will express their unhappiness.
    The questions about "how much is enough, what really matters, how do we create balanced lives", these questions belong to both genders and are core to rethinking the insane, overworked, undernourished quality of working in America. Maybe we are at a watershed moment to deep dive into the why and how we work to create a newer, more user friendly model.

  •  
    80

    CSDunford

    10/09/09 | Report as spam

    Scott Ager

    Scott, it's people like you who make the working world even more difficult for women. Your close-minded, selfish attitude ("It's all about ME, not you", I hear you saying) is what people are talking about here, if you would open your ears and eyes. Your two posts add nothing to the discussion. People are saying that it's not the money, and no one else has even mentioned "unlimited phone calls" (post #13). We're talking about RESPECT and RECOGNITION, something that is obviously beyond the scope of your experience. I'm an educated woman who has managed to balance work, home, family and finishing my education. I expect to be recognized and rewarded for that. Instead, boors like you completely ignore it. THAT'S why I go looking for another place to work, and your company will suffer when my dedication, experience and knowledge walks out the door.

  •  
    81

    missas

    10/09/09 | Report as spam

    RE: Why Are Women So Unhappy At Work?

    Really I'm considering a move frankly because I have a new boss with the whole economic upheaval and, well, lets just say I feel less valued. More work, less pay, and shallow recognition. No path for growth. I know what you're thinking ... OCH *feelings*... what a woman like thing to say.

    It's interesting that a company would value it's resources enough to be so proactive about something that appears to be (judged by many of these comments) superficial.

  •  
    82

    carolyn.ou

    10/09/09 | Report as spam

    RE: Why Are Women So Unhappy At Work?

    A company that would attract, reward and best utilize the talents of female employees would be one that supports the integration of a woman's public and private sides. So often in corporate America, women have had to separate the two in the belief that that was the way to "get ahead."

    In coaching and also knowing many women who have made that jump, or who are in the middle of career transition, what I have heard most often expressed is a great desire to be able to bring 100% of themselves into the workplace. This is about integrating all sorts of dimensions -- creativity, expression, flexibility, ways of working, ways of being acknowledged, etc.-- as well as integrating their "private" roles as mother, daughter, wife, sister, friend, community builder, and more.

    Ultimately, an environment in which a woman can only express limited parts of her wonderful self is an environment which doesn't support her growth and development as a person (both privately and publicly).

    So why are women more likely to jump ship? It's because they need a role that taps into their passions and skills and allows them to really thrive, as well as an environment -- culture, colleagues, freedom of expression -- that truly supports it.

    Carolyn Ou
    Sandbox Consulting
    Coaching. Training. Communications.
    carolyn.ou@gmail.com

  •  
    83

    2TallTexan

    10/09/09 | Report as spam

    RE: Why Are Women So Unhappy At Work?

    When I was growing up, our family followed the traditional roles that were common back in the 1960?s: my dad went to the workplace and my mom did her work at our home. As a result, our home was always immaculate, our clothes were clean and ironed ... and my brothers and I were always greeted with a warm smile, a kiss--and often a snack of some kind--when we came home from school. While we weren't quite a "Leave it to Beaver" family, we were a happy bunch of folks.

    And, for the most part, such was the case for the other families in our neighborhood. There were no latch-key children in my neighborhood, no kids being hustled off to day care centers or left with babysitters and neighbors for hours on end so that mom could seek her fulfillment and self worth. All most all of these moms took pride and garnered satisfaction in knowing that their homes were a place where people felt welcomed, their kids were happy and healthy, and their husbands felt loved, appreciated, and even admired. (And they, in turn, felt likewise.)

    The beautiful lady I've been married to for 39 years was the product of such an upbringing, too, and she also relished taking care of the home and carrying the main brunt of raising our children. She, too, found that her satisfaction and self-worth were based on being a full-time wife and mom. She never had to face the quandary of having to be away at work instead of being with her children ... whether it a first day of school, a school event, or an important life event such as a birthday.

    Now for those reading my post who have plastered yourselves to the ceiling over my comments, please pry yourselves off of the same. I'm not saying every man and woman has to choose the path that my wife and I chose in order to be happy or more content, but I will say it's been my experience that those who did choose this more traditional path seem to be enjoying their lives much more ... and their children/families reflect that. Most are much happier and far less dysfunctional then many families I see today where mom and dad are away from the home, busily scaling the corporate ladder, while someone else raises their children for them.

    I've been in the workplace now for more than 35 years and have seen a multitude of women come and go. Most were very skilled, competent, and valued employees. But I watched so many women who vainly struggled with trying to be a mom, wife, and co-worker ... it seldomed worked out as they wanted it to. Many ended up quitting work to go back to being a full-time mom and wife ... some headed off to another job where they felt their schedules would be better accomodated ... and the majority of those who stayed on continued to be mostly miserable and unfufilled.

    We all have choices to make ... make them wisely.

  •  
    84

    NicoleWM

    10/09/09 | Report as spam

    Women are multi-faceted

    The one thing that stands out when skimming these responses is the one thing then men hate about women. We are complex, multi-faceted individuals. There is no one reason why we are unhappy. More likely, it is a combination of little things. Most women I know would be willing to cope with only one missing factor: lack of respect, unequal pay, stodgy and beauraucratic procedures, the boys club, inflexible schedules, needed family time, and the general guilt placed on women for wanting a well rounded life. It's when a woman is forced to deal with two, three, or all of these issues that it just doesn't seem worth it anymore. Men have a very single-minded focus and are always looking for the one right answer. Women realize that our careers are just one aspect of our lives and, although it may be the top priority for a few years, ultimately we want more for ourselves and for the world.

  •  
    85

    slk86

    10/09/09 | Report as spam

    RE: Why Are Women So Unhappy At Work?

    If I started a company, the employees' work/life balance would definitely be considered. This is extremely important to me as a woman, especially since I have a 6-yr old, 4-yr old, 2-yr old, and 1-yr old counting on me to be their mom. Working 8 hours in the office and then going home to work some more is very difficult, and sometimes seems impossible. My children are suffering and I can't let that happen. I'm sure other mothers (and fathers) feel the same way.

  •  
    86

    Ken Ferry

    10/09/09 | Report as spam

    RE: Why Are Women So Unhappy At Work?

    Just for the record, not all of us boys are of the "good old" variety. Some of us are just as tired as our female counterparts of the special favors dolled out to those with the right connections, the selective vision, and the part-time consciences. We are the ones stuck, with you, in dead end jobs with no respect and all the responsibility for whitewashing the sins of our "superiors," and we very likely make up the 40% actively looking elsewhere.

    As for men helping with household duties, I insisted early on in my marriage that the cook should never have to clean up after dinner. 22 years later that's still the rule in our house, our two children having experienced their fair share of the work. My oldest once asked me, while I was ironing my shirts, why I was doing woman's work. Hearing my wife suck in air, I simply asked him, "Who told you this is woman's work?" He shrugged and walked away content. Today, as a college junior, he cooks his own food, does his own laundry, and cleans his own apartment. If he didn't fully get it then, he does now.

  •  
    87

    clarkm

    10/09/09 | Report as spam

    RE: Why Are Women So Unhappy At Work?

    Maybe women are just generally more unhappy than men, regardless of the potential cause(s). An inherent martyrdom complex that is womenkind's blessed burden to carry through time or we're (men) just all a'holes that make them feel that way:-).

  •  
    88

    eahessel

    10/09/09 | Report as spam

    RE: Why Are Women So Unhappy At Work?

    I am not miserable at work, but I am not happy. I am tired of putting band-aids on the same business problems again and again. I know that if we would resolve the core issue these problems would disappear or become a non-issue. Two things in my opinion stop this process.

    1) (Many) Men solve problems; the ones right in front of them, which in this woman?s opinion is many times a band-aid fix. I want to look for the core issue and fix it.
    2) Fixing the core problem takes time and sometimes a lot of time. Business today is running full force on less, and doesn?t have the leadership manpower or time available to focus on fixing some to these issues.

    So in current business, we live with the band-aids. I have a hard time with that when the same issue or some hybrid of it comes up time and time again. I have experienced this in many of my positions.

    So yes, I want to be somewhere else. Somewhere I can be effective in supporting a goal/vision, building something, and solving the big problem. Home and family, volunteering, and being involved with personal interests all support that need.

  •  
    89

    Love To Coach

    10/09/09 | Report as spam

    RE: Why Are Women So Unhappy At Work?

    There remains an unanswered question which is implied, but not stated. "Why is this true for 'high powered women' ? "
    Thinking of the teaching profession for example, more women are loyal than men. But I suppose teachers are not high powered.

    While there certainly is some truth to the comments, does the poll anti-select by only asking "high powered" people? I think so.

    Do women have to be quit, to move-up more than men? Are men rewarded more for loyalty than women? Are women's views only heard if they are considered the outsider, divergent point of view from the old school?

  •  
    90

    Gray Eminence

    10/09/09 | Report as spam

    RE: Why Are Women So Unhappy At Work?

    It's not that men are any unhappier, but unlike a similarly situated woman, a man will typically will suck it up and endure onerous workplace conditions, whereas most, not all, but most, women in the same situation will whine moan and cry about how difficult they have it. React however you will to that, but I'm speaking from personal real life experiences.

  •  
    91

    grantcu

    10/09/09 | Report as spam

    RE: Why Are Women So Unhappy At Work?

    We might need to ask more questions about the differences between the male and female respondents in this survey.

    It's too simplistic to say that women are twice as likely to want to leave as men. All we can say is that women seem twice as likely to say that they want to leave.

    This might simply be their greater willingness to express their feelings. As many men might think the same but be unwilling to express it because they might be perceived as "weak".

    In my own experience as a coach, my female coachees are generally more willing to admit "weaknesses" and emotional issues sooner in the relationship. My male coachees tend to want to frame their problems in task terms or in "how do I get other people to change" terms than to admit that they are fearful or worried about their ability to cope with something.

    As for "female friendly" organisations, what exactly are they? Perhaps we should say "people friendly" and recognise that emotional issues and personal preferences are powerful for both sexes.

  •  
    92

    Walter Griebenow Massone

    10/09/09 | Report as spam

    RE: Why Are Women So Unhappy At Work?

    corporation is a new species. peculiar characteristic: no feedback loop in the greed sense. obvious consequence: overuse of resources not noted until it causes impact in other senses.

    I share that view that we guys believe a lot more the "ship" concept, until it gets sh...ty. Been there done that, and i got out not by own decision, they kicked me off. I remember one of my employees, a woman, quitting the team work at midnight after an unconsidered comment from me, that was her threshold. Mine was probably at a 20 hour week. No longer of course. I am now 42 and would dump the "ship" as that woman did 8 years ago, should things get nasty in my new job.

  •  
    93

    Walter Griebenow Massone

    10/09/09 | Report as spam

    RE: Why Are Women So Unhappy At Work?

    sorry meant 20 hour day

  •  
    94

    arthurdoucet@...

    10/09/09 | Report as spam

    RE: Why Are Women So Unhappy At Work?

    I work in an an organization run by women. Be careful what you ask for as the grass is not greener!

  •  
    95

    Lost_in_NY

    10/09/09 | Report as spam

    Amen marybaum

    You nailed it - No matter how much proven experience, knowledge, certs, academic credentials, awards, etc. a woman brings to the job, I have experienced far too many cases in which men believe 'father knows best' still applies. And that goes a long way to explaining why, financial circumstances permitting, we move on.

  •  
    96

    janealongest

    10/09/09 | Report as spam

    RE: Why Are Women So Unhappy At Work?

    I think it's pretty obvious. Most of the belief systems of working America where created by men in a different time in our country and they persist today. For instance, although research has shown that work at home employees out perform office employees time and again, many businesses still hold onto the belief that if you can't see the employee, he is not performing. And that is just the tip of the iceberg.

    Another problem is that women work differently than men, preferring to work on a spectrum of tasks, both work and home simultaneously all day long, not compartmentalizing those problems to work from 9-5 and little league minutes, planning johnny's bday party after 5. So they may, for instance, balance their checkbook while participating on a long, boring conference call where they don't need to talk or contribute much, but where their participation is mandated or necessary. So what would have been a half hour of lost time is now redirected to completing a personal task in addition to accomplishing the work task at hand. And this may give them the ability to not rush out the door at five, but rather stay around if a problem emerges late at work. However, this type of behavior is frowned upon in corporate America, EVEN if the employee doing it is the top performer. It is a culture issue. So I think these type of women feel very frustrated and controlled working for bosses that are inflexible in their thinking and fail to take into account who is performing better, but just stick to who fits their "cultural" perception of the better employee.

  •  
    97

    Andrea.galvez

    10/09/09 | Report as spam

    RE: Why Are Women So Unhappy At Work?

    What I find most interesting about this discussion is that, although many females are similar in nature, no one has yet made the basic observations that all women are different. Yes, there must be something unifying that would cause a much larger percentage of female to want to "jump ship" than males, but without more information on WHO was including the research (as opposed to what gender) I don't think any one answer will rise to the top. As a young female who is currently fighting my way up the corporate ladder, I can understand all the comments regarding work/life and the need for something more. But the point is, you can't shove all women in the same little box and say that all women have the exact same issues resulting in wanting to leave their current position.

    Could it be that in this current economy HR departments are taking a good look at their minority percentage, and creating some opportunities for females? Maybe not. But to assume that all those women who are considering "jumping ship" are jumping into a stay-at-home mom position is a mistake. Not all women have children, by the way.

  •  
    98

    applecore12545

    10/09/09 | Report as spam

    RE: Why Are Women So Unhappy At Work?

    Woman are inconsistant in nature. Let's take a real big step back and see woman for what they are...less dependable, less accountable for their actions. Woman love taking the victim role and thats no different when it comes to the workplace. I know in my building we have 60% woman and it's common knowledge throughout the environment that they are not as dependable as the men and have a low threshold for going the extra mile to do the job right. Many of us men end up doing the real thinking work because the woman have coyly brainwashed everybody that they cant do it. I have BS degree woman in my building who dont even know how to use the file manager explore on their Windows PC computers...and these are woman with 4 year College BS degrees. I see it as playing the same game as they do in life which is to always take the easy road. Woman are unaccountable and they have always been. Of course tehy jump ship. They jump ship in their personal lives and so they of course do in real life work situations.

  •  
    99

    DeborahGeorge

    10/09/09 | Report as spam

    RE: Why Are Women So Unhappy At Work?

    Response to Youknowme2

    Puhleeze.

  •  
    100

    DeborahGeorge

    10/09/09 | Report as spam

    RE: Why Are Women So Unhappy At Work?

    Response to:

    "Perhaps they are realizing that work is hard. They've made their point and now it's time to go do easier things. "

    You are clearly an unemployed male who is sulking because he thinks "the women" have taken his job.

    Poor you.

    Get a life.

  •  
    101

    2TallTexan

    10/09/09 | Report as spam

    RE: Why Are Women So Unhappy At Work?

    DeborahGeorge et al ...

    Perhaps we would be better served if we all stick to addressing the article and forgoing the urge to personally attack others for their viewpoints? Maturity points do count, you know.

  •  
    102

    Sharronm

    10/09/09 | Report as spam

    RE: Why Are Women So Unhappy At Work?

    In the majority of cases, today's women who have reached the peak of their careers have done so with a much higher moral cost than any male counterpart in the same position. The female exec has fought the long chauvenistic battle in the majority of cases, where the tight skirt and V neck sweaters were the judge and jury of which female would make it to the top and which one would remain behind.

    Trust me when I tell you, getting an exec position does NOT come easy and always comes with struggles that men definitely do not deal with. At best, women generally reach the peak of their careers after the children are capable of looking after themselves after school hours and don't require babysitters any longer.

    If she's lucky there is a supporting spouse who actually helps with the "2nd" job which is for most women done on her own or is expected to be done by her because well after all she is the "woman".

    The corporate ladder is very long for those woman who have chosen to battle it through without the hiked skirt, compromised relationships and just plain hard work. The equality of men to women in the same position, is still not at the point of equal pay for equal work I assure you. HR or not, women want to be rewarded equally as their counterparts, and any good CEO whether male or female, who recognizes talent, hard work, integrity and gives flexibility won't have women abandoning ship.

  •  
    103

    Illyria

    10/09/09 | Report as spam

    RE: Why Are Women So Unhappy At Work?

    2TallTexan,

    Please consider the fact that not all of us want to be at home moms, nor are we to blame for all latchkey kids. Do you know how many comments I've run across blaming women for latchkey kids? Or the fact that "men are the drivers of civlization?" Not women, of course not. This problem is more attributable to the me, me selfishess that pervades society, as well as the drug culture.

    Ever hear of Heidi Olson? She was the CFO of Cantor Fitzgerald, and kept doing her job, even when she had two children, while her husband is an archietect who works a lot.

    I also recommend you check out Po Bronson's What should I do with my life? In it, there's a comment from a woman: "I'm afraid to have kids yet. I need to accomplish more with my work first. I know it's selfish. but it's also responsible. I don't want to end up being one of those moms who, fifteen years from now, develops terrible regrets, throws a midlife tantrum, sleeps with my husband's best friend, and secretly resents my kids because I gave it all up for them." -- from a thirty three year old senior editor for a magazine, who's accomplished plenty, but whose mother exhibited all of the above.

    So please don't guilt women into feeling as if we should just stay home and being mothers and if latchkey children are our fault. I don't want to have children, does that mean I will suffer for it?

    Women seem to be caught in a catch-22 situation, where if they work too many hours at work, they are deemed bad mothers, but if they spend too much time with their kids, they are deemed bad employees. The problem then, appears to be the work/life balance.

    In addition, I've noticed an awful lot of sexist commentary against men. I'm not knocking women who've genuinely experienced gender discrimination, but there are many sexist comments against men. As well, there are sexist comments against women. Can we please try to keep some balance without a good discussion devolving into the battle of the sexes?

  •  
    104

    Sharronm

    10/09/09 | Report as spam

    RE: Why Are Women So Unhappy At Work?

    To eqinvestments - you couldn't be more wrong!

  •  
    105

    jdozier@...

    10/09/09 | Report as spam

    RE: Why Are Women So Unhappy At Work?

    Okay, I'll hop on the whipping post so anyone who believes my comments to be chauvinistic, antiquated, or insecure... do whatever you do. I have the utmost respect for women. The cultural/Virginia Slims pressures... and lie... to "have it all" has destroyed many female friends of mine. A favorite quote I believe in: ?For the hand that rocks the cradle - Is the hand that rules the world? (Wallace). If you care to peer around the corner and face the reality of having taken the hand OFF the cradle? Well, we are all the sad beneficiaries of this neglect.

  •  
    106

    sarahberg

    10/09/09 | Report as spam

    RE: Why Are Women So Unhappy At Work?

    I am a woman. I'm unhappy because I feel my job (not my career) has lost its meaning. It is still defined, but it isn't meaningful. Generally, women care. Stereotypically, women do not just roll with the punches and let things that are bothersome roll off their backs. They care. I care. I want to do something that makes a difference, something that betters myself, the company that I work for, and the society as a whole.
    I feel that, especially this past year with economic woes, the good parts of my job, where I most felt was making a positive difference, was sacrificed. Things that this company did that I believed strongly in were changed, mostly out of fear and the almighty dollar. I respect that this company did what it felt it had to do in order to, if not succeed, at least not fail and avoid bankruptcy, as was the fate of so many other businesses. However, these changes cause me to feel as though I don't belong here anymore. I'm not a good fit because my beliefs no longer line up with what is expected of me in my job. And I care too much about my beliefs to just take this in stride and roll with the punches. I want to find something else that will be meaningful to my career and me as a person.
    Incidentally, I also have a child and would DEFINITELY sacrifice work hours for hours with him. Unfortunately, I am a single mother and am the sole income for my family; therefore, not working outside of the home is not an option.

  •  
    107

    Illyria

    10/09/09 | Report as spam

    RE: Why Are Women So Unhappy At Work?

    eqinvestments,

    Please, for a guy who thinks he's so smart, try to learn how to spell, for God's Sake!

  •  
    108

    EricHooper

    10/09/09 | Report as spam

    RE: Why Are Women So Unhappy At Work?

    It is oblivious men and women?s brains are wired a bit different from one another. Women?s decisions are made on much more of an emotional level compared to men. During these tough economic times I feel women see what's going on and want out; fearing things are only going to get worst. Men on the other hand, are much more optimistic than their female counterparts when times are tough. Men seem to have an easier time letting go of their emotions during the current economical downturn and are able to train themselves to look at the future with a bit more optimism.

  •  
    109

    EricHooper

    10/09/09 | Report as spam

    RE: Why Are Women So Unhappy At Work?

    ^^^^^ Sorry, I have no idea how some of my apostrophes turned into question marks

  •  
    110

    carrollc

    10/09/09 | Report as spam

    RE: Why Are Women So Unhappy At Work?

    I personally think (and i am female and have worked over 20 years in corp. america) the last couple years (economy? layoffs?) have set us back a bit on the work/life balance and HR soft skills areas that had finally made their way into the work place. Yeah there's tough stuff going on, but it feels terrible at the work place - - less connections with people, more infighting and underhandedness to keep your job, and then being told you "SHOULD be happy you have a job". Partly true, but who likes to work like that. Men seem to be able to cut off and not let that effect them as much - - afterall it's the culture many of them started. Work is work and that's all. I'm a bit more holistic than that. Sad.

  •  
    111

    Illyria

    10/09/09 | Report as spam

    RE: Why Are Women So Unhappy At Work?

    EricHooper, thanks, I"m a total emotional basket case. By the way, an empirical data to back up what your saying? Because men are having a much harder time right now then women. Women's jobs are mostly situated in education, health care, ect. while men's jobs are being slashed.

    It's funny, for a guy who's claiming that women's decisions are all based on emotion, rather than logic, his entire comment is based on "I feel.."

  •  
    112

    peter1589

    10/09/09 | Report as spam

    RE: Why Are Women So Unhappy At Work?

    It strikes me as a most rudimentary and innate response to the most basic role of women in the world, the overwhelming instinct to manage the home and raise the children.

    In that so few women can find a responsible male these days, completely thwarted as males are by the incessant parade of imagery and tsunamic flow of liberal rhetoric flooding our eyes and ears for the last 43 years, making us men little more than fornicating machines in one form or another (leading, as is obvious to everyone, that the vast majority of folks have morally fallen to literally defining themselves by their sexual inclinations), thus we have impelled women to go against their natural instinct and forced them into the workplace to "insure" their financial stability.

    Obviously, in this climate of economic decline, this is but one more philosophical phallacy which is biting the dust, for there is nothing even approaching security in this life, as Mr. Bernard Madoff's once-rich clients have suddenly and tragically discovered.

    Nonetheless, the instinct that exists in women to live in a stable marital bond, and reside in a stable, dependable, secure home, surrounded by children (as Holy Writ describes, viz: "Your wife shall be like a fruitful vine in the recesses of your home; Your children like olive plants around your table.") remains, no matter how thwarted they have been by us males so stupidly and despondently addicted to the sexual revolution mess instigated initially by Dr. Kensey and Hugh Hefner, and radically departed from the guidelines established by God. (5:28. But I say to you, that whosoever shall look on a woman to lust after her, hath already committed adultery with her in his heart. 5:29. And if thy right eye scandalize thee, pluck it out and cast it from thee. For it is expedient for thee that one of thy members should perish, rather than thy whole body be cast into hell.)

    Surely this will make no sense whatsoever to those who are irreversibly indoctrinated by the incessant, relentless assault of the senses for the last 43 years of business as usual in the sexual revolution, but surely the concepts will resonate somewhere deep in your consciences.

    Try to listen to that small voice inside which validates these axioms, and realize how dire our national integrity is as a result of the violation of those virtues and embracing of those vices. God bless you all.

  •  
    113

    EricHooper

    10/09/09 | Report as spam

    RE: Why Are Women So Unhappy At Work?

    ^^^^LOL.... a completely emotional response.

  •  
    114

    drjimsellner

    10/09/09 | Report as spam

    RE: Why Are Women So Unhappy At Work?

    Wow! A hot controversial topic!
    First, there is medical evidence that when job stresses increase, depression increases. Depression has a negative impact on productivity and perceived enjoyment of life.
    The medical research indicates that there is no gender difference in the job stress-depression connection.
    Second, people who reported feeling good about themselves before the increased job-stress were seen as having more severe depression - and as a result a greater decline in productivity - than those people who were "fairly" depressed and unhappy before the increased job stress. So the pain is felt in the contrast - ouch!
    Third, in general, women are more in touch with their internal selves than men and so feel the pain more, with the result that they are more likely to get off the burner when it gets too hot (frogs in the frying pan thing). Uumm that seems like a smart thing to do.
    In my book, The Phallic Imperative: Why Men Are hard To Get Along With!?, based on my 40 years of counselling about 1000 men, it is clear that we men live in an assumption of "Brutal Omnipotence." We think we can stand just about any onslaught. This simply is not true. We do a good job of denying the effects but we pay the price in increasing poor health and mental problems as we get older.
    So, maybe, just maybe, women are the canaries in the mine. And we men might do well to pay attention.
    Dr. jim sellner, PhD.,DipC.

  •  
    115

    ksheppard@...

    10/09/09 | Report as spam

    Why are they unhappy? Easy answer!

    Women, if you are unhappy at work it is because it does not bring you happiness. Forget about blaming everyone else. Look to yourselves. You chose to do something that you thought would bring you happiness, and it doesn't. Why did you think it would?

    Each and every one of you has a story - some of you work because you have no other choice. Your individual situations merely provide corollaries to the basic question founded in this premise: Anyone who chooses to find happiness in doing something that cannot bring happiness is either a fool or has been deceived.

    What it comes down to is that each of us, male or female,
    needs to make choices based on truth, goodness, and intelligence. Foolishness and deception are best avoided when prayer to God is routinely incorporated into the decision making process.

    One of the saddest deceptions is the one which convinces us that the way to happiness is to diminish the liberty of someone else, so we compel them to do something contrary to their basic rights of life, liberty and property. This action never leads to happiness, but too often leads to ever increasing tyranny.

  •  
    116

    theflo1

    10/09/09 | Report as spam

    RE: Why Are Women So Unhappy At Work?

    Hey Sean,

    Female CEO? Not really a good motiovation. I am doing research on Gender related aspects. From most of the literature that I have studied it boils down to one thing, balancing work and household demands. If I were to start my own company todady the first benefit would be to offer women flexible hours. Whether my boss is a man or a woman itt won't make a difference if they expect to be in the office from 8am to 4pm and can't allow me to take my kids for doctors visits that won't make me happy. Women likes to be flexible, and the more flexible are schedules the more productive we become. In some areas it is believed that they are unhappy about salaries that are lower than their male counterparts on the same level. For more info you can have a look at the World Bank's 2008 report and Kaminsky & Reilly' article on Career Developement on Women and IT

  •  
    117

    seansilverthorne@...

    10/09/09 | Report as spam

    Incredible conversation, but where do we go from here?

    This is an unbelievably articulate threat, even with the few "he vs. she" silly comments thrown in.

    I take from this conversation so far that women:

    1. In general don't want to be treated differently at work, but do want recognition for all the work they do.

    2. Women and men, although of the same species, are in some fundamental ways not of the same makeup, the old Venus and Mars things. Managers need to understand the differences as well as the similarities.

    3. Women have to fight harder to get where they are than men, and that battle takes an emotional toll that might be part of the workplace dissatisfaction we are seeing now.

    I would love to see our conversation steer more toward the question I posed in the original post. Because the answers here are where we are most likely to find the direction we need to head in the future:

    "If you were creating a company from the ground up with an explicit goal of attracting, rewarding and best utilizing the talents of female employees, how would that company look different than today?s traditional firm?"

    I'll write a new post based on the comments to this question as soon as possible.

    Sean

  •  
    118

    samoore1126

    10/09/09 | Report as spam

    RE: Why Are Women So Unhappy At Work?

    Interesting title - when women don't like their jobs or leave to take a better position, they are "unhappy". When men do it, its called not liking their job or leaving for a better position, or, GASP! its climbing the ladder they are supposed to climb.

    Once we get past looking every decision made by women as being driven by emotion, then maybe women will stick around longer in the jobs they have.

  •  
    119

    jutter99

    10/09/09 | Report as spam

    Who wouldnt stay home if they could?

    Im so tired of hearing how being at home raising kids is a hard job. Tell me someone is joking! That is so old and over played? Give me a break. Sitting in the livin room in front of your 50 inch lcd tv while the kids play in there room and you fold cloths....zzzzzzzz. Is your child retarded or have some mental disorder, like he eats all the gold fish and holds his fork with his toes? Im guess for most of us the answer is no. Come on women people! Im a single dad of 2. I know what I am talking about here. Being at home with the kids is no where as near as hard as any job. AND if you like your kids??? maybe even fun! Double duty? What is that crap? You got a lazy husband who does not help? Thats your stupid problem. Sounds like you made double duty for yourself. And you only have you to blame. Women are quiting there jobs because they have an excuse to not work. Plain and simple. I have only met one woman manager That I respected. She busted her ass and was super smart. Managed a college deprtment. Too bad she was of 2 gens back. Here is for the idiot who threw men under the bus with the commnent that men are not chivelrious(Spelling?) any more. How about women are so fake and worried more about how much they weigh and what other women think then they have ever been in history. More women are selfish and down right sneeky then any time in history. This only creates a me, me, me attitude. No team spirit and no good quaily relationship spirit. That spills over into work and that is why when the going gets tough the babes keep quiting....

  •  
    120

    peter1589

    10/09/09 | Report as spam

    RE: Why Are Women So Unhappy At Work?

    If women would stay home and make babies, then (a) their men would become far more responsible; and (b) we wouldn't have to import workers and outsource jobs. Women wouldn't have to work if more men existed to take their place in the work force where they belong and women took their place in the home, making the economy far more efficient by cooking, sewing, loving their nest and children, cleaning and socializing with like-minded women, than trying to fight men's jobs (wearing pants all the time as well) when they are innately ill-suited (no pun intended) for the nature of the work of conquest.

    But NOW will have none of it, and women prefer to hear their voice of reason rather than God's, and thus we have social chaos. Learn the lesson well.

  •  
    121

    Legal Cat

    10/09/09 | Report as spam

    RE: Why Are Women So Unhappy At Work?

    In his book, Find Your Strongest Life, Marcus Buckingham states that women are less happy OVERALL than they were 40-50 years ago. Why? More choices - too many choices. Like purchasing a pair of jeans from a selection of 3 versus picking a pair of jeans from a selection of 50. More choices equal more stress. Women who work stress about what's not getting done at home and when they're home they stress about what's not getting done at work. Women who choose to stay home stress about not being fulfilled or contributing to society (often as judged by their family members or "friends.") Second, women tend to focus and try to work on their weaknesses whereas men focus and build on their strengths. It's how we are wired. Women need to focus and build on their strengths to become happier. We need to tip the balance in our lives to those activities that energize us versus those that deplete us. So it's not just being unhappy at work it's about overall happiness and whether your job energizes or depletes you.

  •  
    122

    btraven

    10/09/09 | Report as spam

    RE: Why Are Women So Unhappy At Work?

    Sean,
    I think there is another thread in this conversation that did not make your top 3. That thread is "The American work place is pretty screwed up right now. It may be more screwed up for women. It might be that women are more unhappy because they culturally have or feel they have more options -- or they are more rightly sensitive to how screwed up things are from a humanistic point of view."

    I believe that everyone would be happier with more flexibility, a scaleback to "hard but reasonable", and a fair annual vacation. From the posts, it would seem that these changes would be important to women, but would increase men's happiness, too -- even if they are currently "grinning and bearing it."

  •  
    123

    ken johanson

    10/09/09 | Report as spam

    RE: Why Are Women So Unhappy At Work?

    Great comments from a number of perspectives, all valid I suspect due to a variety of personal experiences. As a male with both experience as a contractor and employee of the same global corporation I experienced wonderful talented bosses of both genders. But I also experienced incompetent but savvy politicos of various genders, races and ages that made me ask myself "why work so hard? why care? what's the difference?" They managed to get ahead, take credit for other's ideas and hard work and have survived to force many good people out using the economy as an excuse.
    I chose to leave when I was asked to take a pay cut and turn over my fulfilling and successful projects and internal clients to my newly promoted, less experienced but very connected female "boss". Some years I admit I only saved the company a few hundred thousand dollars on projects that are now consistently over budget, miss deadlines and have weaker results. I just hope someone wakes up so my company stock holdings will return to their higher value and I can pay off the mortgage. I'm having a much better time, after a year off to be home with my wife and kids, serving children and families in a not-for-profit.
    Men and women are individuals with needs that vary to the person. Don't let the poor corporate leadership and agenda driven self promoters sucker you into a gender war when the real battle should be about improved conditions and fair pay for all based on results and effort not politics.

  •  
    124

    sjlong

    10/09/09 | Report as spam

    RE: Why Are Women So Unhappy At Work?

    duh! "Cause they're still not party to the occasions and
    locations where the real deals are made. They're not included
    in the week-end golf events nor are the ladies following the
    big swatters in to the men's room to "shake out" the details
    and subtext of central issues. The powerful guard and defend
    their territory well.

  •  
    125

    sherry@...

    10/10/09 | Report as spam

    RE: Why Are Women So Unhappy At Work?

    I think great people only respond positively to caring visionary leadership. My proposition is that the women who have made it are indeed great people and that they are simply responding to the poor leadership that has been highlighted by the recession.

  •  
    126

    finijoy_b

    10/10/09 | Report as spam

    RE: Why Are Women So Unhappy At Work?

    Women play different roles everyday. For those who are married their roles are enormously changing every minute from being a mother to a being a wife, a counselor, and the post she is holding in her job. Women could even multitask these roles. She is more flexible than her male counterparts and with this skill and choices of roles, she could easily find ways of becoming satisfied. When an individual is satisfied on a certain level of need, the desire to move on to the next level of need is expected( Maslow). That somehow explains why women are more likely to consider jumping ship than men.

    On the other hand, I believe than women are more serious with their priorities than men. Family matters usually come first for women across different ages and cultures. When there is conflict between with her priority and work, and when a choice has to be made between family and job, I think family comes first. And so when women find their jobs as obstacles to accomplish/fulfill their roles in their families, that job becomes dispensable. Given all the means and comforts of life women would prefer to be home-stay moms than males to be home-stay dads.

    Therefore companies should know what priorities their female employees have and what drives them to be on that job.

  •  
    127

    gguessa

    10/10/09 | Report as spam

    RE: Why Are Women So Unhappy At Work?

    Note all the comments from the women, they "feel" that work should be shaped around everyone of their styles and issues in life. Reality is that you are paid to produce something so that the boss can make money not so that he has to build a nest for you.

    Grow up and quit whining (at least so blasted much).

  •  
    128

    lynn safford

    10/10/09 | Report as spam

    RE: Why Are Women So Unhappy At Work?

    I guess after reading all of these posts, something occurred
    to me, even after posting my initial response to the topic. I
    think it should be obvious to all of us that there is nothing in
    the workplace that will make us happy. NOTHING. Not
    more money, better opportunities, free time, working
    harder to get ahead of men, etc. NOTHING WILL MAKE US
    HAPPIER at work....period. Our families, our communities,
    especially our children who grew up without most of us
    while we were working (I stayed home and it was harder
    than hell after being a professional for years and making a
    lot of money), some little baby looking at you wondering
    who you are and how well you are going to take care of
    them by walking aimlessly around a mall trying to entertain
    them. After a time, you adjust and realize that the most
    important thing in the world is your family and your faith.
    And our society has lost both. When you rediscover both of
    these, although for many women it is too late, you find the
    happiness that most of our parents had. Moms did not work
    then, they cooked, they cleaned and worked hard FOR THEIR
    FAMILIES, and I believe looking at the women back then,
    they were much more fulfilled than today. Go out and meet
    your neighbor, volunteer at your church again, go make
    something for your bake sale and contribute to your
    community (not through the government...because you want
    to not because you are made to), and then reconnect with
    your families and your faith to find a true purpose (much
    greater than our jobs or money) .......NO JOB COULD EVER
    GIVE US THAT!

  •  
    129

    twanless@...

    10/10/09 | Report as spam

    RE: Why Are Women So Unhappy At Work?

    Sean:
    You said you'd like to repurpose this discussion to go back to your original question: "If you were creating a company from the ground up with an explicit goal of attracting, rewarding and best utilizing the talents of female employees, how would that company look different than today?s traditional firm?"

    This seems to be addressing a symptom rather than a root problem, namely that people are fleeing today's workplace whenever possible.

    So why not repurpose it to a thread that has also been running through much of this: That the modern workplace, exacerbated by the recession, has become a dehumanizing place in which both men and women are suffering from an overall misery.

    Probably far more fruitful would be a question about how to build a workplace that is more humane, less ferociously competitive and more collaborative as required in this century.

    Also important might be where these corporate fugitives (especially women who are leaving in greater proportions) are going.

    I suspect to small businesses or organizations, which have been attempting to do this for some time and have had many successes.
    Tony Wanless

  •  
    130

    scott.ager@...

    10/10/09 | Report as spam

    RE: Why Are Women So Unhappy At Work?

    Don't you love "women's statistics"? After making generalized statements of "fact", the supporting evidence consists of "I", "me" and "my best friend Betty Lou". The term "self absorbed" jumps out. I guess that when the going gets tough, the women run away. Whiners, complainers, nag, nag, nag. Get back to work.

  •  
    131

    ah12

    10/10/09 | Report as spam

    RE: Why Are Women So Unhappy At Work?

    Emails are piling up and iam here , thinking how true it is, that after being a working professional for 9 years now & being a mom of 6months old baby,work doesnt really matter anymore.True that happiness cannot be entirely found at work.True that appreciation doesnot come from your work place alone.It all depends on what spectrum of life you are in.I know women who made the choice to be working mom & are happy with the same.I know others who would rather spend their time at home with family.I know others who are at work because they have nothing else to do.Most commonly women can multi task,women can do lots better than men.Yes women can be happy at work if they are without commitments & only carrer focussed.When priority changes & needs are not entirely met,women are unhappy.

  •  
    132

    perkinsonpm

    10/11/09 | Report as spam

    RE: Why Are Women So Unhappy At Work?

    Thanks, I needed this right now. I raised my kids and it was very rewarding. I'm in a management position in an industry that doesn't pay as much as others. I've questioned myself on this. Should I move on to a higher paying joy in another industry. I love my job and I make a difference where I work. I put in a lot of hours and the men where I work do not have the same responsibilities at home as I do. So having said that....my thought about the question is, I would not want to work where I didn't make a difference, was appreciated and felt fulfilled. These are hard times right now and you begin to question what's most important in this life. Maybe women do this quicker than men. I only left a job when I wasn't appreciated and couldn't make a difference.

  •  
    133

    Jes Katz

    10/11/09 | Report as spam

    RE: Why Are Women So Unhappy At Work?

    Possibly women are simply more honest about what they expect and want. Everyone (ladies and gents) are feeling the pressure of the economy on their companies and jobs. Maybe the women are frankly more quickly aware of the increased pressures of the workplace and the volitility around them and are more honest about that impacting their holistic priorities. I imagine in more cases than not, women are trying/required to be more balanced as many say below. When work isn't rewarding or begins to tip the balance of not being worth what you are giving up to be there, women may just be quicker to recognize it.

    That being said, a flexible work environment coupled with leaders that encourage and enable you to do your best work and being rewarded/recognized for the actual value you provide is a good way to keep ANYONE happy and engaged.

  •  
    134

    CharityHisle

    10/11/09 | Report as spam

    RE: Why Are Women So Unhappy At Work?

    I find it very interesting that so many men are commenting
    on their perceptions of women and our wants/needs/desires
    for a fulfilling career. There are many references to the
    past, which do not apply to me.

    I am one of these women thinking of jumping ship. Not
    because I want to be home more, but because I want to
    advance my career and I am tired of seeing new employees
    hired in above me. This happens to men too, however men
    are more resistant to change than women. I think it boils
    down to that single difference.

    I'm with Jess, #133. enabled, rewarded/recognize is what
    you should offer if you want to keep your female
    employees.

  •  
    135

    Legal Cat

    10/12/09 | Report as spam

    RE: Why Are Women So Unhappy At Work?

    twanless, #129, says it all. "Probably far more fruitful would be a question about how to build a workplace that is more humane, less ferociously competitive and more collaborative as required in this century."

    PS: for those who multitask, be aware that while multitasking your IQ drops 10 points.

  •  
    136

    scott.ager@...

    10/12/09 | Report as spam

    RE: Why Are Women So Unhappy At Work?

    "Probably far more fruitful would be a question about how to build a workplace that is more humane, less ferociously competitive and more collaborative as required in this century."

    Required by whom???

    Jesus wept, have you been to China recently. They'll be purchasing your city real soon. Probably while you're texting your support group.

  •  
    137

    inveng

    10/12/09 | Report as spam

    RE: Why Are Women So Unhappy At Work?

    Probably reward in workplace is not the kind of reward women want deep in their hearts. Many women who have been rewarded at work many times still feel emptiness is bigger than the rewards. However, the rewards of having their families assuring them their love for who they are, not for what corporate thinks of them is the most amazing reward they could ever had in their entire life and keep having. Not matter how many hours women put in the corporate job, there is really nothing in the end for them and their hearts. But the more hours women put into other things that they really care for, the happier they are.

    There is a huge lesson to learn by corporate: giving employees the room to grow in what they are good at. That way, their passion and expertise will bring great things to corporate. Instead, corporate insists everybody is cut by the same mold... exactly the opposite of who women are.

  •  
    138

    Ken Ferry

    10/12/09 | Report as spam

    Where do we go from here?

    I find it telling that so many have found the time, I am guessing while at work, to read and respond to the original article and resulting thread. The presence here of even a few from the suck-it-up-and-do-whatever-is-in-front-of-you camp is especially interesting to me. It would seem that we are all at least a little distracted from our paying jobs.

    May I suggest that society, and especially western society, is broken and in need of a greater fix than an improved business model? I can't really state any more of my personal opinion here without being guilty of proselytizing on someone else's web site except to say that, imho, our insistence over the past century on ignoring, dare I say disavowing, the spiritual part of our selves is at the core of what ails us. The stubborn refusal of the subject of spirituality to just go away is my prima facie evidence for my argument. The huge success of the post WW II Japanese business culture, where personal responsibility has been reintroduced into the corporate world, also serves to support my premise.

  •  
    139

    Vickifa

    10/12/09 | Report as spam

    Corporate culture

    So many comments already...but I couldn't resist adding my own, since my perspective is a bit different. I never experienced chauvinism or inflexibility with work schedules as so many women mentioned. In fact, I worked from home and had a great deal of flexibility in arranging my day around work vs personal tasks, as long as I got my work done. However, that was a double edged sword, since it often meant logging in the moment I rolled out of bed, eating all 3 meals at my desk, and logging out just before bedtime. Some work/life balance!

    But beyond that, the thing that ultimately drove me to leave was the change in my company's culture to one where decisions were made in an upper management vacuum with no input from anyone within 4 or 5 levels of the front lines. Any questioning of these decisions (regardless of how out of touch or misguided they seemed) was viewed as "not being aligned" and marked one as a troublemaker. I was savvy enough to keep a positive public face and try my best to "sell" the new direction to my team, but the discrepancy between my true beliefs and how I had to act became too great to bear. Of course in any management role you will have to go along with decisions you don't necessarily agree with, but the thing that killed it for me was the inability to have any input or open dialogue whatsoever- it was, just shut up and roll this out.

    I was constantly amazed that my male counterparts did not seem to experience this difficulty. I didn't know if they had "drunk the Kool-Aid" or what. Maybe they were so focused on getting ahead that they would endure anything- or maybe, like #114 above implied, they simply didn't feel the pain the way I did. Whatever the case, I lost all desire in keeping my "good" job or advancing within the company, and when the opportunity presented itself to leave, I jumped on it - with no regrets!!

    I now work as a consultant and would have to think very long and hard about going back into a corporate evironment again.

  •  
    140

    Manabozho

    10/12/09 | Report as spam

    Recipe for a woman-friendly employer

    RE: creating a company, Sean Silverthorne?s post #117, how would a woman-friendly company differ? Do you want to pay market rates for the skills you are hiring? Then first, you have to make your company successful! The money your company earns is the reservoir from which to make decisions that take gender preferences / differences into account. A meritocratic culture?whoever does the best gets the biggest rewards, regardless of gender?with a high-benefits pay style, all the legally mandated leaves, as much schedule flexibility as you can tolerate, and a recognition-oriented culture will get you a long way.

    I was VP of human resources for 20 years in Silicon Valley. Our company president was one of only about three female super-senior execs in the Valley during the 70?s to 90?s, and was frequently interviewed because of that. I often heard from our female recruits (PhD, JD, MD, highly invested in careers) that they?d heard we were a good place for professional women. Word of mouth is your best advertisement, from the women who work in your company already. Our employee population was almost exactly 50-50 split male / female--I saw the database printout monthly, and it never varied more than a point or two. I was also recruited as a mentor in a women-run program, Menttium. All three of my mentees asked me to stay on for an extra year. Some of what's below may not be politically correct, but I've tried to stick with the facts, my experience, and sources I consider reliable.

    You probably don?t want to become an all-female / predominantly-female employer?women in large numbers report that they prefer not to work in all-female environments. Both genders behave better, in my experience, when they work in mixed-gender settings.

    Myers-Briggs data from decades show only one gender split of any significance: women are predominantly "feeling" decision makers; men are predominantly "thinking" decision makers. So, a woman-friendly company should have a lot of cultural commitment to acknowledging feelings and validating them--especially when a difficult decision has to be made.

    Another tyrannical aspect of this preference: the "feeling" decision preference seeks to take everyone's feelings into account. So, for feeling types, the best decision is the one that takes everyone?s feelings into account. Obviously, this criterion cannot be applied to the majority of business decisions. One approach might be to avoid big all-female enclaves by trying to balance the genders in most departments and functions. Depending on the business, this'll be a problem, because there are a bunch of fields of expertise where women just don't go voluntarily, and a bunch where women concentrate.

    Good maternity benefits and medical benefits are necessary for a company to attract women while avoiding the appearance of victimization and coercion. Also, nice facilities, good maintenance, and a tolerance for heating bills. Our head of facilities said that when it comes to heating and air condition, you have two types of employees: men, and women.

    We provided both maternity and paternity leave, as one poster suggested. The husbands almost never took it. How is that the employer?s problem? The workplace?s problem? Seems like it?s the couple?s problem, if it?s a problem.

    You need to be in the right business. Take a look at some data for jobs with high concentrations of women vs men, and choose those. You'll get a lot further by starting where the women have already self-selected, than by trying to attract them to designing radar towers or some such thing.

    Be prepared for a large proliferation of titles and modifiers, and branching organization designs. We had an almost-all-female work group of project managers, whose organization design was the most convoluted of anything in the whole company, built around personalities and ?recognition? issues that added up to make little organizational sense, but kept the title-owners happy. Women "earn recognition" in their own minds, convince their co-workers by lobbying (sometimes called complaining, but I didn?t say that), and want to be recognized with titles like ?Senior Something,? after showing loyalty and putting in time as ?Something.?

    I?d be happy to delve further, Mr Silverthorne. I?m sure you can backtrack my email thru BNET if you?re interested.

  •  
    141

    E.Robertson

    10/12/09 | Report as spam

    RE: Why Are Women So Unhappy At Work?

    wow. There are a lot of pointed opinions.
    I think that we are looking for that ideal world where everything falls into place. Work, Family, Free Time. Decent people to work for and with. Honesty, integrity, praise for a job well done. We want to be trusted and given responsibility and acknowledged as having done a good job when we do. We want the ability to take care of our family obligations with the knowledge that we will still have a job in the morning.
    We don't want to beat our chests and scream look at me! We want the boss to just notice. We don't want to compete with one another, we want to work as a team. I think of it as the ideal world. I don't live in it, but I dream about it some days.

  •  
    142

    scott.ager@...

    10/13/09 | Report as spam

    RE: Why Are Women So Unhappy At Work?

    @Manabozho: Perfect. You might be interested in a true story where an HVAC contractor was ordered to install an adjustable thermostat smack in the middle of a large all-female office pool. The sage and savvy manager (anyone you know?) ordered the service man to leave the wires unconnected after the install. There were no more complaints about the room temperature after all the women were given free reign to twiddle the knobs all day long...

    I forgot to ask if the "feeling" shareholders have to accept big titles in lieu of top ROI. Seems reasonable.

  •  
    143

    btraven

    10/13/09 | Report as spam

    RE: Why Are Women So Unhappy At Work?

    Scott Ager, #136 -- Yes, I have been to China recently. Interestingly enough, in conversations with some middle-manager/professional types, it seems that many Chinese view the professional workplace in the US as unduly harsh and uncivilized, where people work like "slaves" (their words). Coming from China, a country that many Americans view as one giant sweatshop, that is a heckuva comment.

  •  
    144

    Stephen Isienyi

    10/13/09 | Report as spam

    RE: Why Are Women So Unhappy At Work?

    There are many reasons a woman may be so unhappy at work however, this article seems to suggest that if a woman decides to jump ship, it is because she is so unhappy at work. That is not necessarily the truth.

    Corporate society tends to treat women professionals differently. However, the question may become: "why are our working class so unhappy at work," if it treats its women professionals fairly and consistently as equals.

    To this end, a business organization should do more to enforce equability across the board. This assures its women professionals that if and when the axe starts swinging, they would not summarily be its first victims.

  •  
    145

    scott.ager@...

    10/13/09 | Report as spam

    RE: Why Are Women So Unhappy At Work?

    @143btraven
    "in conversations with some middle-manager/professional types, it seems that many Chinese view the professional workplace in the US as unduly harsh and uncivilized, where people work like slaves".

    I'd feel a lot better if I had read this in a refereed journal using scientific methods to study people who had worked in both environments and were interviewed away from their handlers. What we've got here is more womens' stastics: I, me, we saw, heard, were told that 123, xyz, abc at a luncheon, dinner party, informal visit. So, it must be true. Geez.

  •  
    146

    scott.ager@...

    10/13/09 | Report as spam

    RE: Why Are Women So Unhappy At Work?

    @140Manabozho
    "women in large numbers report that they prefer not to work in all-female environments"

    Thank you for filling in the piece of the "puzzle" that I had completely overlooked. Without using any HR training, I believe that genetics and anthropology alone can expain the "big picture" to me now.

  •  
    147

    louiseacampbell

    10/13/09 | Report as spam

    RE: Why Are Women So Unhappy At Work?

    To the Moron who wrote comment #75: perhaps when WOMEN in the workplace, that is, mature, adult females over the age of 18, are recognized and regarded as WOMEN and not as GIRLS, then maybe women in the workplace won't be so unhappy. I notice you didn't address the males in your audience as 'boys', why on earth could that be? ? ?

  •  
    148

    clarkm

    10/14/09 | Report as spam

    RE: Why Are Women So Unhappy At Work?

    "guys and girls"; that's offensive??

  •  
    149

    btraven

    10/14/09 | Report as spam

    RE: Why Are Women So Unhappy At Work?

    Re: scot.ager #145
    "I'd feel a lot better if I had read this in a refereed journal..."
    Huh? I was responding to your challenge to having been in China recently with some reported experiences from a recent trip to China.

    This is a blog. I reported honestly on what was said to me in China. Seems appropriate to me. If you want scientific evidence, there are many other venues -- they will tell you that Americans work longer each year than other industrialized countries.

  •  
    150

    crespin79

    10/15/09 | Report as spam

    RE: Why Are Women So Unhappy At Work?

    Research suggests that in many business enterprises, both men and women are unhappy, largely because they are not motivated enough. Ethical leadership, whereby leaders practise ethics, instead of merely drafting and implementing codes of ethics for others to observe, will contribute to the solution of this problem of unhappy employees. What we need from leaders and others is a respectful approach, caring and sharing, participative decision making, fair treatment of all employees, including women and minorities, due recognition and rewards, genuine teamwork, rather than discussing the importance of teamwork when the work needs to be done and then developing selective memory problems and displaying favoritism when the rewards (resulting from the teamwork) have to be shared, no false promises or unreasonable demands, etc. Leaders must focus on the needs of all stakeholders: owners, managers, other employess, customers, suppliers, the community, the governement, etc., instead of focusing on the needs of stockholders alone, otherwise the bottom line will suffer.
    All this is very difficult to achieve, but that should not prevent us from striving for excellence. A positive approach which is conscience-based should help but leaders must lead by example, rather than empty speech.

    Maxwell Pinto, Business Author: leadership, ethics, teamwork, women in the workforce, trade unions, Japanese management, etc.
    http://www.strategicbookpublishing.com/Management-TidbitsForTheNewMillenium.html

  •  
    151

    bloomingbusiness

    10/16/09 | Report as spam

    RE: Why Are Women So Unhappy At Work?

    An interesting article, thank you.
    thinking that it may be appropriate to introduce my self to other readers, as a female CEO of Blooming Business ( http://www.bloomingbusiness.co.uk) I have taken a conscious route of delivering a book on marketing know how with a feminine approach in content and presentation. Business and marketing does appear to be on the whole a male dominated field and I was/am against becoming more masculine to state my claim in it!
    I would though like to point out that I may be feminine but I am not feminist, a strong difference. My service, contact and information is for both men and women in business , a fresh new and exciting approach.

  •  
    152

    Grazia Valentino-Boschi

    10/16/09 | Report as spam

    RE: Why Are Women So Unhappy At Work?

    I think I may be the only person adding to this chain who is based in Europe, but I don't believe, after working for more than 30 years, there is much difference.

    I should also mention that I am female (and I prefer girl to lady btw) and mostly prefer to work for women. I say mostly, because overall, I haven't really found any difference in working styles; I just relate better to women.

    The majority of women for whom I have worked expect bums on seats irrespective of whether work is being done or not; commitments outside the office are irrelevant; the bottom line is all; working hard doesn't merit reward.

    This goes back to the fact that companies are run to make a profit.

    As a senior manager myself, I try not to replicate any of the above behaviour, but am seen as either weak by some people (incl women) or aggressive by others when I ask for things to be done by a certain deadline. One cannot win!

    If I were starting up a company now, I don't think having a female CEO is the be all and end all - I think it depends on the personalities of people hired. If the female CEO is like some of my bosses have been, then there's no difference.

    There needs to be a shift towards seeing people as people rather than resources; history has shown us that that rarely happens.

    The attitude has to be one of respect that is freely given (not earned) but that can be lost of course. Politics would need to no longer exist (Utopia) and flexibility from both employee AND employer. If I ever asked any of my teams to work late or extra hard, I would tell them to come in late or take a day off (an extra one, not from their allowance). That shows I appreciate their efforts and their need for a reward/balance in their lives. And they know that working late won't become the norm.

    One more point re: children, which will probably start a storm of angry responses. However, I do need to say this.

    I don't have kids (my choice), but I would like to have a life as well. I understand that children get sick, etc. and that's unavoidable. Emergencies happen.

    But what really annoys me is that I and my colleagues with no children are constantly expected to pick up the slack when there is no emergency situation. So we have to work late to finish jobs - with no reward - as the others have a family and need to get home. If everyone stayed a half hour later when really necessary (not every night), we could all go home more or less on time.

    Us childless people also need to go home, whether that's for pets who have been alone all day or to go to the gym for our health or simply because it's time to go home and have a balanced meal.

    I would love to have all the items mentioned in comment 8: why should I not have access to flexible working, or discounted maid service, etc. just because I don't have kids? That applies to single men or gay men in relationships as well, surely?

    (Oh, and just to add another thought, as a non-smoker, I do get fed up with the long cigarette breaks people have over here: they go out every 15 minutes for 15 minutes, so out of every hour the company will be lucky to get a half-hour of work!)

    That's another one for a start-up company: equality and fairness for all.

  •  
    153

    scott.ager@...

    10/17/09 | Report as spam

    RE: Why Are Women So Unhappy At Work?

    I think that women want, in business, the same status as they seem to want everywhere else: Equal but Special. OK fine. Quit your awful jobs, pool and risk your own money and set up your own companies and run them how you please. Just don't expect me to become a shareholder in Boeing - Her Way.

  •  
    154

    kova5

    10/18/09 | Report as spam

    RE: Why Are Women So Unhappy At Work?

    The term "sociopaths in suits" applies to both genders -masquerading as leaders in the workplace, they cause untold misery with their ruthless unempathetic attitudes.

    Perhaps all in the leadership positions should be forced to undergo psychometric tests, and the results published along with their always glowing corporate profiles; this way prospective employees can judge for themselves whether they are going to work for true leaders or these ubiquitous psychos. A bit too '1984' perhaps but so are many working environments these days because of this issue.

    Sure, the bottom line is king in a capitalist society, but let's not lose our humanity in the pursuit of profit.

  •  
    155

    Manabozho

    10/19/09 | Report as spam

    Urban myth: post hoc, ergo propter hoc

    Students of real-world pay patterns may know that the single factor that correlates most with higher pay, among all factors examined (age, gender, education, etc) has repeatedly been found to be a real sleeper: continuous time in the workforce. Get in the workforce early and stay there--it'll do more for your pay rate and your lifetime earnings than any other single variable.

    Which gender has historically done this? Males, obviously. Not news, but surprisingly unfamiliar to most. Here's a link to a panel at Stanford University in the late 90's where this finding was cited. Before you get all excited with the obvious question, absence from the workforce sets back men's earnings and career progress even MORE than than it does to women's. http://www.hoover.org/multimedia/uk/3412886.html

    So, men go to work and stay there, which increases the likelihood that, at any given snapshot, the people at the top of various power and leadership will look most like the people who've been in the workforce the longest--predominantly males.

    The confusion of correlation versus causation in popular has led to an annoying and illogical urban myth: since mostly older white guys have been in positions of power, leadership, etc, the world's problems must persist because of some blind spots, entrenched beliefs, bad character, stupidity, etc. that all old white guys share in common. In Logic 101 classes, this is called the "post hoc, ergo propter hoc" fallacy, or just "propter." It means "after, and therefore caused by..."

    The second chapter of this popular urban myth holds that things will get a lot better if only non-white, non-male, etc people can get hold of the reins. It can't happen too soon for me!

    RE: solving the right problem--Presidential adviser and power-broker Valerie Jarrett got a fundamental pay fact wrong just yesterday (Oct 18, 2009), on Meet the Press. The discussion centered on recent rapid increases in women's progress in the workplace. Jarrett claimed that, though women's pay has made dramatic progress, women still aren't "paid the same as men, when they do the same work." In fact, Thomas Sowell and others have found that when the large number of factors influencing pay are held constant (major field of study, grade point average, year of graduation, year of entry in the workforce, continuous time in the workforce, job title, work content, etc), women earn 90-105% of what men earn. Yet, Ms Jarrett is dedicated to "fixing" the problem of women's pay as she believes it to exist, despite broad evidence that pay differences are not to be a result of gender, but of individual choices women make about how to participate in the workforce. Even the president of the San Francisco chapter of NOW had given up on the big gender-pay-discrimination argument, ten years ago, after getting beaten by data every time. Yet, it's a rare week that one doesn't hear a talking head re-recite it as an important "fact" of contemporary American life.

    Tempting to quote Will Rogers: "It ain't the the things we don't know that get us into trouble. It's the things we know, that ain't so."

  •  
    156

    Manabozho

    10/19/09 | Report as spam

    Urban myth: post hoc ergo propter hoc

    Students of real-world pay patterns may know that the single factor that correlates most with higher pay, among all factors examined (age, gender, education, etc) has repeatedly been found to be a real sleeper: continuous time in the workforce. Get in the workforce early and stay there--it'll do more for your pay rate and your lifetime earnings than any other single variable.

    Which gender has historically done this? Males, obviously. Not news, but surprisingly unfamiliar to most. Here's a link to a panel at Stanford University in the late 90's where this finding was cited. Before you get all excited with the obvious question, absence from the workforce sets back men's earnings and career progress even MORE than than it does to women's. http://www.hoover.org/multimedia/uk/3412886.html

    So, men go to work and stay there, which increases the likelihood that, at any given snapshot, the people at the top of various power and leadership will look most like the people who've been in the workforce the longest--predominantly males.

    The confusion of correlation versus causation in popular has led to an annoying and illogical urban myth: since mostly older white guys have been in positions of power, leadership, etc, the world's problems must persist because of some blind spots, entrenched beliefs, bad character, stupidity, etc. that all old white guys share in common. In Logic 101 classes, this is called the "post hoc, ergo propter hoc" fallacy, or just "propter." It means "after, and therefore caused by..."

    The second chapter of this popular urban myth holds that things will get a lot better if only non-white, non-male, etc people can get hold of the reins. It can't happen too soon for me!

    RE: solving the right problem--Presidential adviser and power-broker Valerie Jarrett got a fundamental pay fact wrong just yesterday (Oct 18, 2009), on Meet the Press. The discussion centered on recent rapid increases in women's progress in the workplace. Jarrett claimed that, though women's pay has made dramatic progress, women still aren't "paid the same as men, when they do the same work." In fact, Thomas Sowell and others have found that when the large number of factors influencing pay are held constant (major field of study, grade point average, year of graduation, year of entry in the workforce, continuous time in the workforce, job title, work content, etc), women earn 90-105% of what men earn. Yet, Ms Jarrett is dedicated to "fixing" the problem of women's pay as she believes it to exist, despite broad evidence that pay differences are not to be a result of gender, but of individual choices women make about how to participate in the workforce. Even the president of the San Francisco chapter of NOW had given up on the big gender-pay-discrimination argument, ten years ago, after getting beaten by data every time. Yet, it's a rare week that one doesn't hear a talking head re-recite it as an important "fact" of contemporary American life.

    Tempting to quote Will Rogers: "It ain't the the things we don't know that get us into trouble. It's the things we know, that ain't so."

  •  
    157

    Manabozho

    10/19/09 | Report as spam

    oops

    sorry for duplicate post error--webmaster, pls delete one, if you can

  •  
    158

    Juffowup

    10/19/09 | Report as spam

    RE: Why Are Women So Unhappy At Work?

    Looks like a combo of factors eh?
    1 - Men treating women like they know less and can handle less
    2 - Men treating women like they're expecting special privleges when asking to be rewarded for or relieved of (in lack of a reward) extremely above & beyond work.
    3 - Women routinely do more work around the house.
    4 - Women have a stronger urge to care for children.

    I think 1 & 2 are true in a lot of places, I'm sure a woman who's worked for many companies can probably tell you that they've experienced this at least once. In college, I had a bunch of classmates who openly voiced that they didn't think women were as capable and they've no doubt carried this to the workplace. However, this isn't always true. As a man, during my early career I had mostly female bosses (including a congresswoman) and none of them really faced any discrimination or seemed unhappier than their male counterparts as far as I could tell. So I don't think women are universally discriminated against in the workplace, there are a number of progressive companies who deal away with such silliness, but likely a larger number of discriminatory ones. I think as time progresses we're moving farther away from the old mindsets about women (such as the cranky old geezer verycold in #26). So I think it's improving for women.

    #3 - I think women DO do most of the work at home in many cases, and it's a hell of a lot of pressure. Both men & women drive this behavior. Sadly I see this as something that will be true as long as humans aren't extinct.

    #4 - I think this is unfair to say. Everyone is an individual and I'm sure you'll find SOME women who feel caring for their kids is more important than work, but also some women that couldn't stand being stay-at-home moms. This kind've gender-boxing leads to discrimination listed in #1-#2 ("Oh, OF COURSE she's leaving, her maternal instincts have kicked in, typical of a woman!")

  •  
    159

    crespin79

    10/26/09 | Report as spam

    RE: Why Are Women So Unhappy At Work?

    Excellent article and feedback...thanks to all concerned.
    I write books on leadership, ethics, teamwork, women in the workforce, sexual harassment, bullying, trade unions, Japanese management, etc. If anyone is interested in a free copy of abridged versions of my books, please send an e-mail to crespin79@primus.ca.

    Maxwell Pinto, Business Author
    http://www.strategicbookpublishing.com/Management-TidbitsForTheNewMillenium.html

  •  
    160

    clarkm

    10/27/09 | Report as spam

    RE: Why Are Women So Unhappy At Work?

    Grazia Valentino-Boschi; a good common sense view that cuts through the "what I need to make me a happy worker" crap. Thank you.

  •  
    161

    robert.e.walton@...

    11/19/09 | Report as spam

    RE: Why Are Women So Unhappy At Work?

    Regardless of whether a company is diverse and female-friendly, women are taught from childhood to seek strong and healthy providers. This originally applied to marriage but nowadays it carries over to employment in the workplace. With such powerful, almost subliminal training, women don't have to be unhappy to want to jump ship and seek new employment, it may just be the result of sensing weakness or instability on the part of their employer.

Please add your comment:

  1. You are currently: a Guest |
  2.  

Basic HTML tags that work in comments are: bold (<b></b>), italic (<i></i>), underline (<u></u>), and hyperlink (<a href></a)

advertisement
Click Here

Blogger Profiles

  • Blogger Thumbnail Sean Silverthorne Sean Silverthorne is the editor of HBS Working Knowledge, which provides a first look at the research and ideas of Harvard Business School faculty. Working Knowledge, which won a Webby award in 2007, currently records 4 million unique visitors a year. He has been with HBS since 2001. Silverthorne has 28 years experience in print and online journalism. Before arriving at HBS, he was a senior editor at CNet and Executive Editor of ZDNet News.... more »

advertisement
  • Click Here
  • Click Here
  • Click Here
advertisement