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Is O'Rourke O'Wrong?

August 19th, 2008 @ 5:20 pm

11 Comments

Categories: Ethics

Tags: Consequence, Thommygun, Self-interest, Tools & Techniques, Management, Michael Mattis

Last week in Where’s the Line we posted, tongue planted lightly in cheek, an old quote from conservative humorist, P.J. O’Rourke. “There is only one basic human right,” said P.J., “the right to do as you damn well please. And with it comes the only basic human duty, the duty to take the consequences.”

We asked if this maxim was true for business. Judging from the numerous comments, many thought not.

thommyguns writes:

To the extent that our actions have no effect on others I would agree, but in an increasingly flat world there is little we do that does not affect others. So I disagree. We must keep in mind that the consequences born by others due to our actions can be insufferable and cruel, and therefore we are not free to do “whatever we damn well please.”

jenyj89 likes the quote but thinks those in charge only observe the worst half of it :

Too many times we see politicians and high-level corporate leaders who have done as they pleased and got caught doing something illegal or unethical and then they scurry away or try to point fingers….failing over and over to stand up “like a man” and take the consequences for their own actions. It’s sad but true!! And our children and younger generations see it and unfortunately learn from it… it’s a bad example.

If you’re going to do something, right, wrong or indifferent, then you have to be able to stand up and say “YES, I did that” and then explain why you chose to do it, right wrong or indifferent. If you can’t…well, then, you are no better than the dirt under my shoes as far as I am concerned.

Meanwhile, psoucheray invokes the ancient Greeks:

The issue I have with the notion is that it seems to stem from the old Spartan teaching: Doing something wrong isn’t as bad as getting caught at it. That seems to be a tenet many businesses and individuals follow these days. It might be fine if we all lived in our own little bubbles. But we don’t. Like it or not, we have responsibilities to “the other” because they are us.

Or maybe P.J.’s just plain childish, says lllama:

P.J. O’Rourke sounds like a truculent 4 year old. Hopefully, next year he’ll attend kindergarten where he’ll learn to play well with others…

And our own Peter Galuszka (pgaluszka), who pens our Corner Office blog, opines:

This sounds so Ayn Rand. Greed is good. Self-interest is best. Altruism is phony. Ugh!

So who’s right? Who’s to say? As psychology student Julie O’Malley says:

I don’t think O’Rourke is commenting on whether it SHOULD or SHOULDN’T be this way, he’s saying it IS this way. And as a student of psychology, I have to agree that it really is that simple. It all boils down to human behavior. Stimulus and response, rewards and punishments. If we behave in an ethical way, it’s because we are unwilling to suffer the negative consequences of acting unethically.

And those consequences may be multi-layered: internal (guilt, anxiety, shame), external (social ostracization, rejection), legal (arrest, incarceration), business-related (firing, lack of promotion), personal (disdain from loved ones), or all of the above, plus many other possibilities.

Our decision-making brain considers it all and guides our actions.

So there, Peter. I’ll see your Ayn Rand and raise you a Sigmund Freud.

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  •  
    1

    LWeller2

    08/20/08 | Report as spam

    RE: Is O'Rourke O'Wrong?

    Julie O???Malley wrote, "If we behave in an ethical way, it???s because we are unwilling to suffer the negative consequences of acting unethically."

    What was missing here is that some people behave ethically because their focus is not to harm others.

    It's called character.

  •  
    2

    sbrennaman354

    08/20/08 | Report as spam

    RE: Is O'Rourke O'Wrong?

    I agree with the assessment by LWeller2 that people beghave ethically because thay have a focus on do no harm to others. And I agree that it is good character (not all character is good)that these acts reflect. But, how do we develp good character (or bad) and a base of ethicss? Nature vs nuture? Faith In God (yes I said God) or a set of learned beliefs that are focused on the greater good of others over the the needs and desires of the individual. This discussion can go on and on.

  •  
    3

    KPMURPHY

    08/20/08 | Report as spam

    RE: Is O'Rourke O'Wrong?

    It seems to me, by reading the responses posted on this follow-up, that many people got so caught up in the first sentance that they didn't acknowledge the balance given by the second.

    I believe that we all act (without exception) according to our greatest desires at any given point in time (doing what we please)... and whether we acknowledge it or not, we will be dealing with the consequences of all of our choices, whether good or bad. Even if we try and escape the consequences, I believe we will all face them.

    As a Christian, I believe there is perfect justice being executed by a perfect God... whether in this life, or after we depart this life and face judgment.

    There is no escaping the consequences of our actions... and this quote adds that reminder for, and almost mocks, all those who want to live their lives by only the first sentance.

  •  
    4

    sbrennaman354

    08/20/08 | Report as spam

    RE: Is O'Rourke O'Wrong?

    As a Christian I strive to walk the walk but it is always easier to walk for an individual to walk their own path and if they do so it is a willful decision, free will given to him/her by God. Hence an individual needs to be grounded in a set of value that stand the test of time. We all will be held accountable for our actions after we die. For those who do not beleive this will be sorely disappointed and dismayed. Their lives here are defined by what they will do if they are not held accountable (here on Earth) for their actions.

  •  
    5

    noahli

    08/20/08 | Report as spam

    P.J. O'Rourke's always been a fraud.

    Remember, he wrote the "National Lampoon" piece "My
    Vagina," in which a young man wakes up one day in
    possession of a vagina instead of a penis and by the end
    of the day has been molested by his friends. Not
    surprising, then, that O'Rourke's current formulation is
    completely without ethics. Animals do as they please and
    take the consequences. Humans, theoretically, have
    evolved.

  •  
    6

    Viejita

    08/20/08 | Report as spam

    RE: Is O'Rourke O'Wrong?

    The real problem is the second half, "taking the consequences." It used to be that the luxury of staying in a low-level job was that there were several layers of people above you to help fix your mistakes and to to manage the results. So there was a trade-off: less money, less responsibility; more money, more responsibility. In the last few years that equation has been turned on its head. If managers and executives can escape responsibility by claiming they didn't know what was going on in the ranks, then for what are they being paid so much?
    And it isn't just in the business world, I think it might be cultural. (Can anybody say "Abu Ghraib?")

  •  
    7

    Julie O'Malley

    08/20/08 | Report as spam

    RE: Is O'Rourke O'Wrong?

    @LWeller2

    I think you misunderstood my point. I agree with you that "character" is how we define our actions. I try to act ethically, morally, and with kindness and compassion at all times. I believe it's the right thing to do. I want to behave with character.

    I don't behave within my own value system, I am punished with the consequences of feeling guilt, shame, and self-disgust. If I had no character, I would not have those feelings, and I would simply do whatever I want.

    So I behave a certain way because I don't want to face the negative consequences.

    And just for the record, it's been 25 years since I was literally a "psychology student" but I am a lifelong student of human behavior and psychology.

  •  
    8

    sbrennaman354

    08/20/08 | Report as spam

    RE: Is O'Rourke O'Wrong?

    Julie O'Malley brings up a good point when she referred to own value system. Valid point because we do live in a world whereby laws (and ethics) accepted by all are codified into law and generally accepted behavior. The vast majorities of us live by these standards and behave accordingly. A percentage of are criminals or fringe players who do wrong and know it (acknowledgement after arrest) and a small percentage (very small) are pathological (sociopaths or psychopaths). So since most of us are in the former, we make choices.

  •  
    9

    Lux131313

    08/20/08 | Report as spam

    RE: Is O'Rourke O'Wrong?

    Since the concept of "right" and "wrong" is completely subjective and highly circumstantial in the first place, I think everyone has validated O'Rourke's point. There are no guarantees or "rights" in anything, let alone the complex world of business. The only thing that's for certain is your right to do anything, be it stupid, unethical, or altruistic, and suffer whatever consequences are tied to your actions, be they anxiety, incarceration, or eternal damnation. In this respect, I agree with Julie O'Malley, i.e., O'Rourke's comment isn't about should or shouldn't, rather it's just a sage observation of reality.

  •  
    10

    mjs010

    08/21/08 | Report as spam

    RE: Is O'Rourke O'Wrong?

    Sometimes there's good reason to damn the torpedoes, but PJ's quote is Libertarian ideology at its worst - amoral and selfish. It may be "the way it is" but we are all the co-creators of our reality and as long as we accept what is, then nothing changes, except for the worse.

  •  
    11

    Julie O'Malley

    08/21/08 | Report as spam

    RE: Is O'Rourke O'Wrong?

    Agh! He's not saying, "Do whatever you want and it's fine as long as you don't get caught."

    He's saying:
    Fact #1: You CAN do whatever you want.
    Fact #2: Most of us WON'T do bad things because our consciences, or our ethics, or our values, or our morals, or our religion, or our beliefs, or our desire to lead a life of peace and harmony, or the legal system, or the neighbor's vicious watchdog make the consequences unacceptable.

    We don't consciously think "I'm not going to do that because I don't want to face consequences," but that's what is underlying it all.

    Anyway, I'll shut up now.

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