Re-Examining "Why We Hate HR"

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  1

  roxannegc

  10/30/08 | Report as spam

  RE: Why We STILL Hate Human Resources Departments

  I am an HR Manager, and I feel that HR can be too bureaucratic! The last company I worked with was Orwellian, as you say, to a "T". Sometimes I was embarrassed to introduce corporate's latest HR program (I was the HR Manager at a plant). They were a waste of time. I figured most of their programs were "protect my job" programs at corporate headquarters, so they would introduce cr*p to prove their value there. I was miserable. The current company I work with is much more easy going. Yes, I need to try to protect the company from lawsuits, but I am also a huge advocate for the employees and employee involvement, a big culture change here. I actually had someone tell me here that I was the first HR Manager he had worked with that "didn't have a stick up their butt." It was one of the best compliments I ever received!

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  2

  tramky

  10/30/08 | Report as spam

  RE: Why We STILL Hate Human Resources Departments

  HR departments are not independent oversight committees that can operate under their own guidance. They are given their marching orders by executive management and, if nothing else, HR is capable of following orders. If HR is told to keep their noses out of employee relationships then they will keep them out.
  
  A lot of people in management continue to adopt the view of that first popular corporate management book "Up The Organization", which opened its chapter on HR Departments with the statement "Fire the HR Department". And if it can't be fired, then it can be ignored.
  
  HR has no clout except in areas affecting legalities. But the management-prerogative areas like employee relations, performance reviews, dispute resolution and the like are ALL driven by executive management.
  
  It may therefore be the case that when a company's HR department is ineffective in the areas of employee relations, employee development & the like, then you are witness to a company whose executives & managers may ride roughshod over employees and like it that way.

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  3

  billcashman

  10/30/08 | Report as spam

  RE: Why We STILL Hate Human Resources Departments

  That's the problem with generalities - they usually stereotype based on worst experiences. It's actually condecension like the "not the sharpest tacks in the box" comment that disengages people from working with even the best HR functions.
  
  I typically like your articles, but this one lowers the standard.

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  4

  cyberpundit

  10/30/08 | Report as spam

  RE: Why We STILL Hate Human Resources Departments

  HR is irrelevant. In most organizations, they don't have any proximity to actual recruitment. Their job gets invoked for paperwork, not for the decision. For all the lip service paid to "people are our most important asset", very few organizations have really cracked up people management.

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  5

  lbs1978

  10/30/08 | Report as spam

  RE: Why We STILL Hate Human Resources Departments

  This could not be more true. My former 25 year old boss did this to me and my colleague(both sales managers in a wireless company)--she was not doing her job so she turned the fire up on both of us putting us on the dreaded PIP(which are highly subjective anyway--she managed to find me lacking in enough categories to put me into the challenged zone even though I was responsible for the store receiving an exceeds excellence in 3 out of 4 quarters) and she was supposed to "coach and develop" us--all she did was say there was no improvement and canned us both! 6-8 months later she was fired because she was the problem. I hate the performance evaluation process which has become the cornerstone of modern corporate reality. It is just more of the touchy-feely gobbledygook that has infiltrated the business world keeping people who are mindless, speechless robotic types who never speak out propelled higher into management positions.

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  6

  Tony_Marq

  10/30/08 | Report as spam

  RE: Why We STILL Hate Human Resources Departments

  The fact is that HR are employees, too. Many have a general background of what an employer wants.
  
  Unfortunately, I do not blame HR for their difficult roles in candidate selection. Oftentimes, the employer requirements are either too specific or too generalize. I can't say how manay times, a resume has been overlooked because one or two of the listed qualifiers are not met; regardless, of how exceptiuonal the candidate might be.
  
  Therefore, I blame management. Thier profiling needs or their lack of better defining their needs makes HR selection near impossible. I feel that a tolerance level must be set, for example, if 7 out of 10 of the qualifications are meant, then see me.

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  7

  Nelliebear

  10/30/08 | Report as spam

  RE: Why We STILL Hate Human Resources Departments

  Hmmmmm....maybe you're just not working in top-
  notch companies...I've been in HR most of my life (GE
  and an international chemical company) and have
  always been non-bureaucratic in my administration,
  promotion of talented individuals and development of
  policies. Stop with the broad generalizations that HR
  attracts the "dregs of the company." I have always had
  a seat at the table and the operational and business
  team leaders sought out my advice and counsel. This
  is not a fluke. My colleagues in other mid-size
  companies also model these behaviors.

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  8

  HR Babe

  10/30/08 | Report as spam

  RE: Why We STILL Hate Human Resources Departments

  I am an HR manager and while I agree that there are many HR departments and HR managers who conduct HR in this manner, I think that many HR folks want to add value - they just are not provided the chance. I had to prove myself in HR and that I am "different" and can add value and not just be the "protect the company from lawsuits" dept. It is still difficult to convince certain Executives about why the company should invest $$ into HR programs, etc, but all I can do is explain how it adds value, makes things more productive, effective, etc. The article above references performance appraisals, as if they don't have value...it isn't necessarily about the document (although that confirms that the conversation took place) but it is more about providing meaningful feedback to the employee about their performance and objectives. Are they great or do they suck? They will not really know unless their manager sits down with them and communicates with them. It is more about training the managers to understand why communicating with their staff, in the form of regular one-on-one interaction, is important...it isn't just about getting the appraisal form turned in. If HR focuses on the appraisal form itself but not on why the feedback, coaching and appraisal processes are important then it is not being an effective HR dept. Many managers are afraid of confrontation, or do not know how to give constructive critizism or plain don't know how to effectively communicate to motivate people. HR can provide tools and assistance to get managers there...HR just needs to be motivated to do this and needs to want to add value...not just be the "police" all the time.

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  9

  delmardi

  10/30/08 | Report as spam

  RE: Why We STILL Hate Human Resources Departments

  Wow, once again HR is typecast. As a senior HR leader with over 25 years of background from fortune 500 to tech start up I will say one thing with complete certainty. HR is a reflection of the CEO. If he/she doesn't believe that people are assets and should be respected as unique and contributing parts of the business, no matter how good your HR team is they will look like corporate pollyannas since people remember what an organization DOES not SAYS. I have had the opportunity to work for and with some of the most enlightened CEOs and others who viewed the function as a necessary evil. We can "add value" and "sit at the table" but our ability to really contribute is based on the relationship with the CEO and our ability to shape their thinking or help them manage behaviors in ways that foster organizational growth.

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  10

  Mauryse

  10/30/08 | Report as spam

  RE: Why We STILL Hate Human Resources Departments

  HR departments vary greatly from company to company so its not wise to generalise, as this negative article does.
  
  I'm an HR Assistant at the moment (as well as marketing and personal assistant) for a company who really does rally for the employee - yes, I'm aware that we exist most often to protect the company's bum - and to take on the paperwork etc when it comes to HR roles... but there is a need for an HR department as a place where private information about employees can be kept under lock and key, where bullies and poor performance can be looked at and dealt with in a way that is helpful for both employee and employer - this important function is overlooked... and tact and sensitivity is required.
  
  We have a 'strengths-based' philosophy, which is embraced by the whole firm and is a huge factor in what keeps our employees happy and at work everyday. This makes us pretty unique in our approach, and keeps us 'human'.
  
  I thought this article was pretty negative and demeaning - perhaps the writer doesn't really understand the role of HR and that we too are employee's hired to work for the same bosses, to keep to budgets and to be the ones to have break the bad news on behalf of executives!

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  11

  CNJ Jack

  10/30/08 | Report as spam

  RE: Why We STILL Hate Human Resources Departments

  HR is a problem, but even so, HR only generally executes on the tone and intent of the top of the organization. If the executives want mindless drones who toe the corporate line, then, that's what they'll get. If the executives truly want candor and directness, then, they can get that too, but, they have to walk the talk, hear things they don't want to hear, etc. to do so.
  
  Most companies just want boxed filled in their employee selection process. Most companies talk about leadership, but want nothing like true leadership.
  
  Make no mistake, there are serious problems in corporate America. HR has something to do with it, but they're co-conspirators at best.

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  12

  Telamar

  10/30/08 | Report as spam

  RE: Why We STILL Hate Human Resources Departments

  I too feel this article truly lowers the standard of previous articles. Nice to have a scape goat when other things haven't gone well I guess. I work as an HR advisor for a large rural accountancy practice with my focus being HR assistance for all external clients, I do everything from the recruitment to appraisals and yes mediations and restructures. The companies and business owners I work with all want good workers who are enjoying their jobs as that is part of the key to a successful company. I've helped workers go from being unhappy and feeling unregonised and unchallenged in a company to positive, motivated and enjoying their promotions. I find that very quickly I can get staff engaged in what is going on and create an environment where they do see value for themselves as well as the boss and I know I'm not the only HR consultant operating like this - dregs of the corporate world, that's a pretty sad and poorly thought out comment, one usually made by people who like easy scape goats rather than look at the deeper issues they may have in their company, the mirror is often a good place to start!

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  13

  Kurt Elder

  10/30/08 | Report as spam

  RE: Why We STILL Hate Human Resources Departments

  It amazes me how often these sort of articles move the problem of managing employees from the manager to HR. HR's role is to help managers manage their employees not to do it for them. Employees don't leave an organisation because of HR, their main reason for leaving is because their manager is a plonker. It's about time managers stepped up and did their job.

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  14

  lalasrj

  10/30/08 | Report as spam

  RE: Why We STILL Hate Human Resources Departments

  The article talks about the old HR known as Personnel... real and true modern HR drive programs in such a way that earnings per share are impacted.

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  15

  bobbybrownhk

  10/30/08 | Report as spam

  RE: Why We STILL Hate Human Resources Departments

  It takes years for talents to become an effective leader in a company, through exposure, experience and education. HR tries to nurish people, but it takes time. No one will thank HR anyway afterwards, as it "should be the leaders' own qualities".
  
  Yet, it just takes ONE single incident, legal one, to drag the whole company's reputation to the bottom of the ocean.
  
  Take a look at the recall of products incidents of major Fortune MNC, and imagine if your own company is on newspaper 1 day, front page, with the title "Hiring illegal immigrants for work!".
  
  Just once, see what happen.

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  16

  David Whelbourn

  10/30/08 | Report as spam

  RE: Why We STILL Hate Human Resources Departments

  HR doesnt actuall mean Human Resources it is more about Human Remains.
  
  95% of HR depts are waste of office space and contribute little to the morale of the staff or the effective development of an organisation. I agree whole heartedly with the statements in the article.
  
  As a Senior Project Manager / Leader I nearly fell off my chair laughing when and HR manager told me they were the experts in Change Management.
  
  They are generally limp, insipid and ineffective in their enagement of the different audiences. My experience is that most people look at the HR staff communications, roll their eyes, and move to the next email.

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  17

  John Liddell

  10/30/08 | Report as spam

  RE: Why We STILL Hate Human Resources Departments

  What an appallingly old fashioned view of HR! Sure, some HR functions are poorly run. So are many companies by their managing directors, boards, etc. The bell curve of companies swings from the brilliant to the inept: many in the middle make mistakes but get by. That's the human condition. But many HR managers/departments are striving for and achieving high levels performance. Galuszka needs to take off the blinkers and promote the successes of today, not the mistakes of yesterday.

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  18

  LMWalker1957

  10/30/08 | Report as spam

  RE: Why We STILL Hate Human Resources Departments

  You know the hotlink in your article doesn't actually go to the Wired piece you're talking about, right?

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  19

  wilkinsr@...

  10/30/08 | Report as spam

  RE: Why We STILL Hate Human Resources Departments

  What a load of rubbish. The article had major critics across the globe and most of them from successful companies who had integrated HR as part of the value of the organisation.
  
  Those who criticise HR have little or no experience in it and don't see the value becuase they hold on to poor experiences and put it into the generalisation bucket and spread the good news.
  
  We have seen what happens when boards and business handle remuneration, rewards and benefits. It is called a global financial crisis.
  
  Get over it. HR can help. Just like operations, IT, Sales and Service departments.
  
  It comes down to leadership. All I read is disgruntled managers who appear to not have real leaders in their organisation.

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  20

  ic10-22539126795180354856300399705865

  10/30/08 | Report as spam

  RE: Why We STILL Hate Human Resources Departments

  The HR crap is nasty at big corporates such as....*ntel and other semiconductor companies. I have experienced this crap cap and its completely designed to get rid of an employee to meet the headcount and end of year performance evaluation targets. The HR is completely useless and justify their existence by performance management plans. What a crazy corporate out there who let HR present to gather dirt and keep employees under control/fear!!

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  21

  mmmmm2

  10/30/08 | Report as spam

  RE: Why We STILL Hate Human Resources Departments

  i agree with david. it is true to a point that the ceo directs the HR department. it is also true that the HR department (like so many other departments that inflict pain and suffering on the main areas of business) are there to support managers. perhaps if they actually attempted to support once in a while - do something amazing like ask managers what they need and then work to provide it. "surveys" in my experience usually come out after the decision has been made in a farse to appear as though stake holders had any input.
  
  HR work hardest at making more work for them, which intern makes more work for managers. so we keep getting more hr...and more managers...perhaps they are good for something after all.

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  22

  ok2eme

  10/30/08 | Report as spam

  RE: Why We STILL Hate Human Resources Departments

  I totally agree with the article. I know there are generalizations in it and that there are good, heck even great exceptions but that is the exception. Most look at employees as expenses not assets and give lip service to avoid lawsuits.

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  23

  ic10-22539126795180354856300399705865

  10/30/08 | Report as spam

  RE: Why We STILL Hate Human Resources Departments

  The HR crap is nasty at big corporates especially semiconductor companies. I have experienced this c*ap and its completely designed to get rid of an employee to meet the headcount and end of year performance evaluation targets. The HR is completely useless and justify their existence by performance management plans. What a crazy corporate out there who let HR present to gather dirt and keep employees under control/fear!!

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  24

  libbimac

  10/30/08 | Report as spam

  RE: Why We STILL Hate Human Resources Departments

  I'm in HR, and I have an MBA. I've made a point of working for organizations that have progressive, intelligent HR departments. This article was idiotic. HR reports to the top, just like everyone else - we don't have the ability to stop up-and-coming employees and would be the last people to want to. And the dirt that is dug up on employees is typically hand-delivered to HR by small-minded, mouth-breathing fat cats who are too lazy to manage properly.

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  25

  ozjames70

  10/30/08 | Report as spam

  RE: Why We STILL Hate Human Resources Departments

  Wow. I feel sorry for any HR Managers taking a whipping. I have always found my HR resources to be valuable advisors. I don't delegate work to them that I should be doing, and certainly don't invoke the PIP process as an employee exit strategy. As an experienced line manager and executive, I pride myself in my people management and development skills and success. I do use HR advice from time to time, just as I use other specialist functions, but I am responsible for making my own decisions, plus driving and managing my business areas.
  In my humble opinion, too many managers don't understand their people management responsibilities and blame HR, Admin, Finance, IT or anyone else they can, rather than face up to the fact that maybe they are the problem themselves, and maybe they need to improve their management skills and capabilities. I have been interviewed by managers with a Senior Manager title, whom I doubt have the skills, experience or abilities to be at the level they are and who don't have a clue when it comes to hiring. Of course, they blame HR for their woes. How they survive delivering substandard results amazes me, but inevitably along comes a recesion, which in my experiences creates the needed shakeout.

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  26

  director@...

  10/30/08 | Report as spam

  RE: Why We STILL Hate Human Resources Departments

  I couldn't disagree with this article more and can simply say what rubbish. In Australia HR is one of the most accepted forms of management, from high corporate organisations to small business - what I do find is that the role of HR is often misunderstood by `old fashioned' bosses - but they soon realise after suffering high levels of staff turnover and loss of productivity that indeed, their people `are their best asset'. Now, the focus for many successful Australian organisations are to become an `Employer of Choice' - where people actually want to work for them! HR plays an vital part in the management of the business through the people working within that business, both management and employees. Thank God I don't come across managers with such down and out attitudes toward HR and the people they work with/for as have commented to this article - must be nice to blame someone else for their negativity.

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  27

  CSLT

  10/30/08 | Report as spam

  RE: Why We STILL Hate Human Resources Departments

  I agree with most of this article. However, it's insulting to many HR Professional's that are advocates for employees. I have spent over 20 years in HR... and about 13 years in a HR Executive role. When I first started in HR I was bright eyed and had all the right intentions. I wanted to create work environments that were easy, fun, thought provoking. Of course that was squashed in the first 5 years. I chose HR to make a positive change in work environments... only to find the environment changed me.
  I could write this email with a lot of "buzz words" but, I would only be blowing smoke up your back side. HR can play a critical role in a company. Each company is different. I've have for fortune 500's down to 150 employees. I worked with CEO's that actually understood the HR role and many that didn't have a clue how to utilize my skills. While working for theses companies I also lobbied for law's governing for employees. I have seen the injustice on both sides. In differs State to State or Country to Country (International). I came up through the ranks working for many HR Professionals that I had absolutely no respect for. For the most part HR Professionals do cover the companies butt. Most CEO's hire us to do that. So of course the political role outside the Company is confidential. If and when you lobby for the rights of employee's most Companies take that as a threat. So yes, I have crossed that line many times. LOL. Over the past 8 years... I just want to be fair. If one is good in HR, there will be a lot of ruffled feathers. I found many supervisors, managers, Directors, VP's and C's that speak a great game but, they don't play fair. I have also witnessed employee's using the system to their advantage. So, lobbying is very important... and how the law is written is even more important. Many managers? need to take accountability for their actions. Yet, that's not the way most Companies work. They pass the buck onto HR. Which is fine with me...I am then allowed to dig deeper into the issue and find the root of the problem. That's when all hell breaks loose and HR becomes an issue. This trend comes from both sides --employees and executives. HR has their rear hanging out the window... which gives HR more time to think research and grab the Charmin. So when you take a shower and get the grime off ... you can see clearly. Without being defensive and simply provide facts... research research research! Then point the finger.
  
  So when I hear a CEO during an interview they mention "I'm looking for a strategic Partner" my stomach turns. What they are really saying is:
  Strategic Partner = clean up my mess and I need a babysitter
  Tactical = your just an administrator so plan to do nothing but paperwork, don't think, I will do that for you.
  Change Management = figure out how to cut positions so I can have a larger bonus.
  We need to change our "PIP" = let's find a way to document poor performance in case we want to terminate anyone.
  Those are only ?nice buzz words." to cover their butts.
  
  However, each one is important in a Company -- it is up to the HR Professional to get it right. I recently had an experience with General Council that wanted me to use a friend of his at a firm. When I have a law background. Yeah, let?s waste $525.00 per hour so I look incompetent and your friend makes money. No, I don't think so! Or they are "General Counsel" which now has become an expert in Labor/Employment, Wage and Hourly law. Ummm, what?s wrong with that picture? After 20+ years in HR one should know when to call outside counsel. Or you?ve been unfortunate enough to work with General Counsel and they don't have a clue about labor/employment or wage and hourly! My advice is General Council is not educated enough to make any judgments pertaining to Labor/Employment or Wage and Hourly. For the most part" General Counsel comes from Patent, Licensing etc.; they need to stick to that. HR doesn't knock on their door and tell them that we have a copy write infringement and these are the procedures on how to move forward. Come on... HR should fight for what is fair and right. Many times drawing a line in the sand creates conflict. However, if you have done the right thing... you can look in the mirror and face your family with confidence and integrity. From my experience ... honesty, integrity and doing the right thing is not typical in HR. Your identity does not come from the Company... it comes from within. I only wish more HR Professional understood this. One more thing... a few of the Companies listed "as they do well? I disagree with each one listed. I know HR Professionals in some of them...and I have never been impressed by their persona. What they say is one thing? what they actually do is another. HR should make it simple and streamline the processes to eliminate confusion for the employee?s and employer. Just make it simple stupid. You?ll have a lot less stress. When you walk into a company and you have 20 different forms that could be done on one? why not eliminate all of those forms. No wonder employee?s are confused! You?re creating more documents that need signatures... and bureaucracy starts. ?Hold Up?
  
  Buck up, face up, do the right thing.

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  28

  grafael

  10/30/08 | Report as spam

  RE: Why We STILL Hate Human Resources Departments

  It's somewhat disppointing that while there is a concentration of management sciences on corporate and financial performance, HR focus is so out of focus. The most critical component of corporate asset that is an essential to corporate performance is the Human Capital. The cost of talent acquisition and retention is huge! The erosion of experience and knowledge due to aging demographics is an approaching disaster.
  
  And yet the HR function has failed to evolve into asset management and development. One could say that it's not entirely the fault of HR, since the rest of the corporate leadership has yet issue a new mandate. As it is a fault of the HR profession not to be a self-starter in remaining with the traditional ticking of boxes and filing of forms.

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  29

  jacompass

  10/30/08 | Report as spam

  RE: Why We STILL Hate Human Resources Departments

  So you hate HRs. How about Finance, you hate them too? Marketing? Oh yes?
  ...
  
  When a doc's talking to a patient, can he say: I am afraid to let you know that you got a cancer. Please wait for your death?
  
  After identified a problem, what's the suggestions for a solution?

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  30

  dsraven4

  10/30/08 | Report as spam

  RE: Why We STILL Hate Human Resources Departments

  I like the comments... love the article!
  
  1. If you are managing people/employees you have already missed; manage processes, procedures, situations - facilitate employee work/production (without that whip) if your people require "managing" they a the wrong people for the job. A good engineer does not grease the squeaky wheel, he replaces it with one of higher quality.
  2. HR cannot, by it's definition, invoke "change" although it can and must support it. Project Management invokes change (various titles and vastly underused) and hands it off when development is complete to program management. Other wise you will need a sub-set of HR just for change management.
  
  PS - I think this is the correct URL http://www.fastcompany.com/magazine/97/open_hr.html

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  31

  adncube

  10/30/08 | Report as spam

  RE: Why We STILL Hate Human Resources Departments

  HR departments are tiny government institutions in 80% of the corporations. Agreed 20% are non-bureaucratic. Most non-performing organisations have non-performing HRs.

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  32

  gonca.telli@...

  10/30/08 | Report as spam

  RE: Why We STILL Hate Human Resources Departments

  There is no certain line for HR departments because they are facing to human beings. Types, preferences relationships are different even superiors, juniors and staff. These bring a lot of questions, difficulties & problems to the HR people.
  If they are talented and more open probably this dislike will be over.

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  33

  kalattar

  10/30/08 | Reported as spam

  The HR beast

  I think HR need HR seupervision, in most companies. I think top managements also has alot to do with how HR approch all aspcets of HRing; most just rely on HR to 'screen' the employees and company needs. In Kuwait, where i'm from, I've seen HR control everything from hiring and firing to toilet paper!!
  
  Put that beast on a leash!!

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  34

  cileryildiz

  10/31/08 | Report as spam

  RE: Why We STILL Hate Human Resources Departments

  I would like to add an other reason.. Coming from the
  HR function one of the companies mentioned in the article, I can easily say that the reason of why HR is
  still in this "hate" stage is mainly because of the
  quality of HR professionals and the definition of HR
  role. If HR role continues to be defines as a "staff" role
  , HR managers will never be a real player. The highest
  role assigned to HR in our modern world is "Strategic Partner" . Even that role is a passive role in the organizations. HR will be able to add value and get
  respect when HR professionals become first class
  players not only "supporters" and "partners". This
  requires first class HR professionals and training of
  other players. If one day we move to "love" stage in HR
  , it will be only with the efforts of HR managers, not
  with the books with theory or few COE's who understand the really added value of HR. In most of
  the companies HR department, who is responsible for
  the training, does not have functional training
  programs for their HR professionals. So, what do you
  expect?? I think HR will be loved when HR
  professionals really understand the role of HR,
  business challenges and become the real players, not
  supporters.

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  35

  DonDuguid

  10/31/08 | Report as spam

  RE: Why We STILL Hate Human Resources Departments

  Wow! You guys really have it in for HR.
  
  One contributor really hit the nail on the head: HR is
  about the Human Asset in an org. I remember the BAD
  old day in South Africa when the number of
  'employees' was a legal asset on the balance sheet.
  This effected the 'value' of the company.
  
  Since no-one appears to have offered any solution to
  the challenge that HR has - let's consider this: Why not
  add the accumulated value of the experience and talent
  of every employee (C level included) to the Balance
  Sheet! There could be some objective way to do this (I
  see a PhD for someone here!)
  
  Then HR would have a tangible 'asset' to acquire,
  manage and grow. This would then give them a
  percentage share of the net worth of the organization
  and as such enough clout to be true to the above
  stated intentions.
  
  If the Human Asset was, say 15 to 25% of the real
  value (which is probably true in many/most} cases, this
  is a big 'say' in the boardroom. Then HR can really
  prove themselves to everyone as a value-add function.

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  36

  gregcv

  10/31/08 | Report as spam

  RE: Why We STILL Hate Human Resources Departments

  I have been in HR for over 15 years. The author of this article is correct. HR should be seperated into smaller components of which the "Bad" function described above should not be mixted with recruiting, compensation, benefits administration, payroll, etc. Rather, it can be extinguished as needed or replaced along with the VP of HR that is at the head of the problem.

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  37

  harisahmed99

  10/31/08 | Report as spam

  RE: Why We STILL Hate Human Resources Departments

  Well HR could be both waste or a blessing for the employees.
  Usually people at HR have a bad ear.But my experience with the HR so far has been pretty good.

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  38

  ldmack3

  10/31/08 | Report as spam

  RE: Why We STILL Hate Human Resources Departments

  HR = Human Refuse

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  39

  Corinne.mg

  10/31/08 | Report as spam

  RE: Why We STILL Hate Human Resources Departments

  Great Bolg. If there is "no problem" with HR why is there a problem with Office Bullies - see BNet feature 28 Oct 2008. I cannot do better than to copy part of gerry.madigan response to the "Workplace bullying a management primer" because it appears that these respondants did not follow those comments.
  "Let me state it very clearly - any HR professional or direcotr, leader, or manager who is made ware of bullying in the workplace, and does nothing about it - they are equally culpable for the conduct of that bully, adn they become bullies themselves by their association and condoning of the behaviour. I have seen it in the classroom, in universities, in social groups. in associations, and in the workplace at every level. Shame on anyone who succumbs to such abominable behaviour, but double shame on the people who are in a position to do something and do nothing about it.
  All bullies are cowards, and they should be exposed. The office bully is no less an aggressor and predator than the man who abuses his wife, or the paedophile who preys on young children. They display the exact same characteristics - they prey on those who are unable to defend themselves." Enough said.

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  40

  MeetTheBigBoss

  10/31/08 | Report as spam

  RE: Why We STILL Hate Human Resources Departments

  From My Experience/s -
  
  At Times it Has been HR (Top Guy or the Entire Team) to be Tried and Indicted for their Hedgemonastic Style. One Eg. Where at the time of Set of a New SBU - This Phenomenon Was Observed and Experiences - The *** **** was all powerful, mean, egocentric, Old Economy representative and Illiterate by all social standards.
  
  At Times it has been the NICE guy - Who and his team were the Paper Weights of the Organization. Very Talented Guy with Credentials. But All the Comments in this Are Justified for HIM and HIS team only because he was JUST A PAPER WEIGHT. THE LINE MANAGERS/Sr. MANAGERS/GENERAL MANAGERS were the real POLICY MAKERS, INTERPRETES and BENDERS. STILL HR TO BE BLAMED SQUARELY - THIS AT THE GROWTH STAGE OF THE ORGANIZATION -
  
  At Times it has been THE HR MANAGER IN THE FORM OF THE AVP/VP/DIV. MANAGER (GENERAL MANAGEMENT ROLE) who Instead of taking the Opportunity to Develop Good HR Management Practicies in the BU, realised the function Better Serves His Purpose of Unchallenged Supremacy - By Using the Function for All Administrative Purposes, For Spying Purposes, and other destructive and devicise activities - While wielding processes like PIP in his own hands and Using them Arbitrarily at His onw Whims and Fancies.... The *** **** is all powerful, mean, egocentric, Immoral and Unprincipled.
  ----- WHOM WOULD YOU BLAME IN ALL THE THREE SCENARIOS - I GUESS IN ALL GENUINE NESS IT IS HR/CEO/BOARD
  
  The Three Involved in the Idea of getting Resources Together, Putting them to Right Use, Compensating them Competitively, Treating Them Rationally Are the One's Who are to Be Blamed.... If They Can't and They Don't then They are the Ones who need to be Made Accountable through LAW.....
  
  My Understanding is that, only them would all the theree align and Restore HR to it's Appropriate Role and May be Glory.......

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  41

  asander

  10/31/08 | Report as spam

  RE: Why We STILL Hate Human Resources Departments

  Whilst I agree with Kurt Elder that "employees don't leave an organisation because of HR, their main reason for leaving is because their manager is a plonker." I do have to say that some potentially good employees don't join companies because of HR (bad recruitment processes, long delays, nil responses, badly handled relocation....).

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  42

  prdctdvlpr

  10/31/08 | Report as spam

  RE: Why We STILL Hate Human Resources Departments

  Well, I believe HR has developed such a bad rep over the last millenium they are now called Leadership Development or some other name that reflects a more glamourous role.
  
  When I look for people to fill open or new roles I have the responsibility to define the role, set the salary range and help our HR find the person, do the interviews, set the agenda for who else will talk to the prospect and tell HR who to hire. They will fill out the forms and make the call to the person to get a response of yes or no. So how have they helped?
  
  Maybe it's just our HR, but other than insurance plan administration, which, by the way just got moved under our Financial Controller, and organizing corporate fund raising internally by the local charities, exactly what is HR REALLY supposed to be doing?

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  43

  jim_moroney@...

  10/31/08 | Report as spam

  RE: Why We STILL Hate Human Resources Departments

  Most smaller organizations do not have HR managers. Usually those tasks are shared by the accounting department and others. As the CFO of a mid-sized manufacturer, I end up being also the de-facto HR manager. My experience has given a new perspective and appreciation of what HR managers do and why they are hated so much.
  
  HR managers are stuck with unpopular but important tasks such as how to avoid lawsuits, how to keep your plant from becoming unionized, how to make sure people are treated fairly, the importance of maintaining morale, how to motivate employees, maintaining discipline, managing benefit programs, etc. I have walked a mile in the HR mocassins and so I am less critical. There are plenty of bad HR managers (and bad CFOs too) but that is because they are selected by bad managers who do not understand what the job entails.

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  44

  pjdeegan

  10/31/08 | Report as spam

  RE: Why We STILL Hate Human Resources Departments

  It really is a cop-out to blame HR for the problems of an organization. Most of the time, HR is merely a reflection of the overall culture. If the PIP is meant to railroad someone out of the culture, then don't blame the process by which it is done. That is like a person getting shot and blaming the gun, rather than the person who pulled the trigger. You should blame the organization for having a culture that permits this. Top management is to blame for that.
  
  HR's role is to give the business the right information they need to make sound business decisions in the area of employees. If the business choose to go down a path, despite HR's warnings of the risks, then the business is to blame.
  
  However, there are many good people that work on HR teams, but there are also many non-performers, power-hungry bureaucrats, and sometimes just down-right silly people.

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  45

  R. B.

  10/31/08 | Report as spam

  RE: Why We STILL Hate Human Resources Departments

  I dislike articles that stereotype and generalize, no matter what the topic. I have been in HR for over 20 years and I see my role as being an advocate for employees as well as a protector of the company. A bridge. My job isn't so much to protect from lawsuits as it is to make sure our management group isn't acting in an unfair, discriminatory manner that provokes lawsuits (or other work environment problems). I want to make sure our employees are being treated with respect, not being taken advantage of and that we are fully complying with all applicable employment laws. While I'm not perfect and certainly don't know everything there is to know, I work hard to do my very best and to keep myself abreast of current trends, changes in law and best practices. Sometimes HR has to find ways around roadblocks, especially if the CEO isn't that receptive to employee issues. Sometimes we're fortunate enough to find a CEO to partner with so we can really have a positive impact on the culture and work environment. In this case, we can make a difference and that's very satisfying. A lot of HR people are extremely sharp, professional, motivated, caring, contributing and non-bureaucratic employees. Don't write us all off just because there are some bad apples out there. That could be said of any profession. Additionally, no one can effect change on their own. It takes cooperation from the entire management team. Getting that cooperation can often be a near impossible challenge. HR is not an all-powerful force that can simply make things happen by themselves. Sometimes, reaching the goal takes a thousand tiny steps. You just have to keep pushing forward. Keep learning. Keep improving. Keep growing.

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  46

  CathyKnight

  10/31/08 | Report as spam

  RE: Why We STILL Hate Human Resources Departments

  I am a recent HR MBA graduate who has yet to get the opportunity to work in such a fine establishment as you describe. However, I am in charge of HR at a small company (less than 20 employees) and we pride ourselves in conducting coaching sessions and giving employees every opportunity to better themselves rather than dredge up reasons to dismiss them.
  
  I got into HR because of my desires to improve workplaces to make employees happier and more motivated. This article makes it seem like every HR professional out there is only doing it as a last resort to stay in the business world.
  
  I would also say that being catagorized as being an unsharp tack is highly critical, and I take slight offense to it. However, as I am frequently the go-to person for multiple issues from every angle of the business I am currently in, and everyone tends to think I'm "smarter" than the job I am currently stuck in, I can avoid taking it personally.

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  47

  ennyman

  10/31/08 | Report as spam

  RE: Why We STILL Hate Human Resources Departments

  You obviously hit a nerve on this article based on quantity of replies.
  The article is incredibly harsh. Our HR team is invaluable for dealing with issues that no one but an HR staff has time for or experience.
  HR a waste of office space? HR not the sharpest tacks?
  The article is mean spirited at best...
  But you got people talking, so half your purpose is accomplished.
  It is obvious the readers here are not a homogenous unit. I suppose it depends on your experience.

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  48

  lewisa4

  10/31/08 | Report as spam

  RE: Why We STILL Hate Human Resources Departments

  Peter - get a grip. To make sweeping statements about a profession is ridiculous. Will you be commenting later on how the IS/IT teams are socially inept and the folks down in Finance are the worst to invite to the Halloween party? I read and distributed the source article back in 2005 ??? there were great points in it; however, I was annoyed by the generalizations and stereotypes that construct such lazy writing.
  
  BNET ??? How about an article on which races are poor swimmers and who has all the money in Hollywood? No?
  
  Perhaps we could stick to articles that contain insight and advice, case studies and research, while mixing in some anecdotal experiences that don???t paint with such a broad brush.

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  49

  Lisa_Shepherd@...

  10/31/08 | Report as spam

  RE: Why We STILL Hate Human Resources Departments

  There is truth in this article to the degree that many CEOs and other Executive levels don't value HR.
  
  When the Human Resources department is integrated into the business - and HR just like every other department must demonstrate it's value, then you don't have a department where the bureaucracy impedes effective business.
  
  In any business you are either contributing to the business value or you're taking away from it. If your HR department is the latter, then you have to look at the other Executives and C -levels who allow that to be the case.

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  50

  yvette.maynardgreenidge

  10/31/08 | Report as spam

  RE: Why We STILL Hate Human Resources Departments

  Is it any wonder we are having a "melt down" worldwide? When we start putting people first and stop hating HR, things should look much better."People make Profits" they also create losses.

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  51

  gdrobinson

  10/31/08 | Report as spam

  RE: Why We STILL Hate Human Resources Departments

  Wow, if nothing else, this article sparked some great awareness and good dialogue. While HR is still struggling to become a respected partner and trusted advisor there are some positive strides being made - please don't cast us all in the same light.

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  52

  kim.holden@...

  10/31/08 | Report as spam

  RE: Why We STILL Hate Human Resources Departments

  While I typically enjoy reading your satirical if not often times offensive remarks on various topics, I truly find this one distasteful. And I am not even in HR. I find it ironic that you spend so much time analyzing (really just generalizing) departmental functions yet continue to bring little if no value to how things should be changed. Perhaps you were one such employee who felt the effects of a ???bureaucratic??? Human Resource group. Maybe you deserved it.

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  53

  zzh_my

  10/31/08 | Report as spam

  RE: Why We STILL Hate Human Resources Departments

  ??????????????????????????????????????????e

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  54

  trnoebel@...

  10/31/08 | Report as spam

  RE: Why We STILL Hate Human Resources Departments

  With respect to the response from asander - have you considered that the reasons you cited about not joining due to HR are often, in truth, driven by slow/poor decisions by hiring managers or by severenly constrained budgets that HR must operate within to manage functions such as relocation?
  
  I find that far too many people prefer to blame HR rather then look in the mirror as to the role they play in impacting the programs that HR is required to carry out, the decisions they are asked to deliver and "stand behind".

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  55

  me_sansan

  10/31/08 | Report as spam

  RE: Why We STILL Hate Human Resources Departments

  gathered the articles i've read in this regards, i think there's a huge gab between the HR reality and the theoretical point of view. On one hand, the academics hv been trying to promote the importance of HR, emphasizing how influencial it can be( but it seems otherwise in the corporate world), giving false hopes for the students. the lecturer once said that hr personnels are not very creative people, they are often torn between executing management's "new policies" and protecting employees' interests. so i guess to secure their job, ofcoz they would rather be on the management's side.

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  56

  David Keneford

  10/31/08 | Report as spam

  RE: Why We STILL Hate Human Resources Departments

  I've been in HR for more than 10 years now and the best compliment I've recieved was that I don't talk like an HR person. I suppose that validates to some degree your scathing indictment of all who practice HR; but perhaps it also suggest we're not all the same. What next? Finance departments? Law? IT? I suppose most corporate functions are pretty good targets for those sorts of stereotypical remarks. I personally try to avoid generalities. I suppose many HR departments continue to practice "traditional HR", so we're not helping ourselves as a profession. But there is a trend toward more strategic HR, which I think many of us are embracing - even if the organizations we support aren't! For balance, I suggest you and your readers check out an article in the Harvard Business Review entitled, "Why Did We Ever Go Into HR?" by Matthew D. Breitfelder and Daisy Wademan Dowling. Cheers,

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  57

  Mike Paten

  10/31/08 | Report as spam

  RE: Why We STILL Hate Human Resources Departments

  Everyone loves to hate HR ... because they (like most other support functions) do not (and can not) meet everyone's expectations. In short it's a thankless job. However, if HR professionals spent more time helping managers find and keep good people ... they wouldn't have to spend so much time helping the company get rid of poor performaers and protecting' the company from law suits.

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  58

  athanfromca

  10/31/08 | Report as spam

  RE: Why We STILL Hate Human Resources Departments

  A very informative article for someone like me attending an MBA (HR emphasis) program to become an HR manager down the road.

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  59

  MikeRLee

  10/31/08 | Report as spam

  RE: Why We STILL Hate Human Resources Departments

  I have worked in corporate level HR positions in several companies, all of which believe that they are cutting edge. However, in every case these "young presidents club" CEO's do not have a clue about human resources and what it takes to truly be cutting edge. They drive the system to dumb-down HR into a benefits administration and new hire processing function. If you really want to find out why HR is hated by the CEO's, it is because HR is the only function that might actually be willing to tell them the truth - which is something that they cannot handle.

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  60

  frbarraza

  10/31/08 | Report as spam

  RE: Why We STILL Hate Human Resources Departments

  Mr. Whelbourn as a 15+ year HR leader for one of the largest, global, multi-billion dollar semiconductor companies, I find that employees like you have no value within an organization. You are that "one" employee all employers have. You know the one, you see him in the mirror every morning. The fact that your nearly fell off your chair laughing, means there's a pulse and perhaps hope. HR is an expert in Change Management, we partner and work with Senior Management, and together we've concluded that - "limp, insipid and ineffective" employees make outstanding Project Managers. I'm certain of this, the next email you receive from HR won't read "congratulations on your promotion." Best of luck to you.

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  61

  maba0320

  10/31/08 | Report as spam

  RE: Why We STILL Hate Human Resources Departments

  Firstly, who manages HR? Who makes sure that the HR strategy supports the company's vision and strategy? You'll find that if the CEO cares, he or she will make sure that the HR vision and strategy is supporting what the company wants to do. Sometimes what they want is someone to hold the hands of their (incapable) managers. But more often these days, they will want HR to lead the strategic organization development, cultural change, and employee engagement making the company ready for the future.
  Secondly, with HR professionals - as with anything else - you get what you pay for. Again, if the company see what value HR could provide, then they will find the "sharpest tacks in the box,??? they will include them as a strategic business partner and rely on their expertise in ensuring the long term success of the organization.

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  62

  ma2804

  10/31/08 | Report as spam

  RE: Why We STILL Hate Human Resources Departments

  As a former employee of the nation's leading PEO (Professional Employer Organization), I can agree with the opinions of others regarding PIPs and HR paper pushers. Even the leaders adhere to the same format!! HR reps are what we've made them. They watch the rules, dot the i's and cross the t's but most aren't coaches, trainers, people developers, or managers. They're doing what management thinks they should be doing, pushing paper, watching rules and laws, and writing manuals or forms. Wouldn't it be refreshing to change the paradigm and actually make the HR rep a driver of human excellence, or as Garry Ridge (CEO of WD40) would recommend, "help employees succeed".

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  63

  kchaiken

  10/31/08 | Report as spam

  RE: Why We STILL Hate Human Resources Departments

  It's unfortunate that the only value in this article is that HR might see how a few people out there feel about us. This kind of blanket statement simply does not work today, we are supposed to be more educated than those who subscribe to such closed-mindedness. And this "article" comes off as a rant, which is not typical of BNET. Try again, Peter, this is a pretty big disappointment.

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  64

  Cheermommsc

  10/31/08 | Report as spam

  RE: Why We STILL Hate Human Resources Departments

  I dare anyone to come to HR and try and do what we do for a week. You will be calling EAP at the end of the first day.
  
  I love my work and find it rewarding. And PIP's are not the whole of HR.
  
  We handle: Recruitment, retention, training, benefits, retirement, workers compensation, evaluations, salary administration, general administration, classification, compensation, payroll, mentoring - in addition to legal compliance.
  
  Try it for a week....and we are NOT devoid of intellect...as a matter of fact, the best HR Managers must be highly sophisticated in order to navigate the morass of regulations and procedures we administer daily.

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  65

  Mark Stelzner

  10/31/08 | Report as spam

  RE: Why We STILL Hate Human Resources Departments

  Peter, were you personally wronged by a big, bad HR
  professional? Did your performance review read,
  "Inability to consider all aspects of a problem" and
  "Does not take personal responsibility for his actions"?
  
  Break the problem into the transactional,
  transformational and risk mitigation roles and then
  assess which one your company culture embraces.
  Most should have all three, but for as many times as
  HR has apparently steered you wrong, I suspect they've
  helped you get a raise, a promotion, deal with a
  personal problem, arbitrate a dispute or aid you with
  benefits.
  
  Sure, HR has it's challenges, but why don't you run the
  table on the C-suite and talk about "Why We Hate
  Marketing", "...IT", "...Sales", "...Operations",
  "...Finance", etc. I'm sure you could come up with
  many reasons to dislike them all.

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  66

  Kevin Cottingim

  10/31/08 | Report as spam

  RE: Why We STILL Hate Human Resources Departments

  I have been an HR VP since 2000, working for three different companies. In two out of three, I had "a seat at the table". In my current role, I lead the strategic planning process, coach my peers on how to be more effective leaders, champion the development of internal talent, and act swiftly when our values are violated. My CEO sees me and the CFO as the two most critical members of his team; not marketing or operations.
  
  By the way, performance appraisal is about the process not the paperwork. I suspect Mr. Galuszka's opinions are based on his personal experiences rather than a search of the current H.R. literature, which would show him there is a lot more to H.R. than he is aware of.

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  67

  david_theguy@...

  10/31/08 | Report as spam

  RE: Why We STILL Hate Human Resources Departments

  "But Keith???s scathing magazine piece still rings true three years later."
  
  This is an interesting statement. As a "30-year journalist," where's your evidence of that? And where's your evidence that it was true "then?"
  
  I don't necessarily disagree with some of the comments that Keith made, but to attempt to journalize this reeks of a cheap shot based on other journalists' opinion. Disingenuous, to say the least. Misinformed and unoriginal, you researched the web, found a 3-year old article, and said "me too!" like it was an original thought.
  
  Certainly sensationalism at its best, very nearly journalistic dishonesty.
  
  But that's just me...
  
  KB

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  68

  tombunny

  10/31/08 | Report as spam

  RE: Why We STILL Hate Human Resources Departments

  For 10+ years I worked at one of the top ranked US biotech companies, for a woman who had risen to the rank of VP courtesy of the "Peter Principle". People outside of the department actually went out of their way to avoid her. She would change to focus department "services" to the organization at a whim and those of us who questioned her were put into the "CAP" [read PIP]. CAP was her "legal" means of staff harassment and HR was completely behind her imagined and twisted version of facts. While HR turned a blind eye to her antics the credibility of the department has taken a nose-dive, and good people have been forced out of the company. The CAP - "correction action plan," is a complete joke because once annointed with that label you couldn't even move to another part of the company - you became a pariah! Your only option was to somehow endure life in that department or leave the company [which was the goal our VP intended]. HR was less than honest in their appraisal of a situation where the manager was, and continues to be, a rude bully who is in a position that is completely beyond her capability. HR does not show even-handed support to employees, management is given carte blanche in their activities with no fear of reprisal. If the bottom-line is important to share holders, they should take a long look at the employee turnover at some of these places. If it's such a great company, "why do so many people leave?"

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  69

  jcairns78@...

  10/31/08 | Report as spam

  RE: Why We STILL Hate Human Resources Departments

  I agree, HR is very ineffective and prevents quality employees from being promoted and career seekers with potential from being hired. Those that are promoted are those that slide in under the radar. Could this be the problem with Corporate America? I believe so. I am often amazed at the level of incompetence throughout Corporate America. And here I am stuck in retail, 30 years old with a Bachelor's degree in the Health Sciences and an MBA and can't seem to find a career because HR is more concerned with hiring story tellers than qualified people.

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  70

  jwhertel

  10/31/08 | Report as spam

  RE: Why We STILL Hate Human Resources Departments

  The sidebar links next to his article include a poll on Bullying at Work; Linking Benefits to Talent Management and The Mistakes National City Bank made that will wind up costing alot people their jobs. These are the issues of the day that HR departments are helping their organizations clean up or deal with. In the best of companies HR is quite the opposite of your outdated caricature and in the worst of them HR tends to reflect the expectations of the leadership of the company.
  
  I'm used to seeing better content on BNet. There's enough going on in the world that there shouldn't be a need to dredge up old articles that were based on outdated stereotypes.
  
  Jim

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  71

  edmondsyd

  10/31/08 | Report as spam

  RE: Why We STILL Hate Human Resources Departments

  This article was great because it opened up the lines of communication in both directions. Many people did not agree with this article because their 'experiences' were different. This is proof positive that there are enlightened and unenlightened employers. I have had the priviledge of working for both, in order to see effective management and ineffective management. What HR managers really need is the power to influence and change the culture of the organization. They cannot just be "yes" men and tell the CEO what he/she wants to hear. We keep it real. We have insight into human behavior and motivation. The corporate world would be wise to listen to us because their success or failure depends on it. Human resources is the single most important function in the industry. We are people strategists. Do you want maximum productivity? Consult HR. This author is correct in stating what he did about the PIP because I experienced it working for government. Ineffective doesn't even begin to describe putting a person in fight or flight mode, which by the way, shuts off all higher level thinking and the ability to concentrate. I have done much research on this. Bravo to the author for writing this piece, and bravo to each of you for sharing your insight!

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  72

  MichaelA65

  10/31/08 | Reported as spam

  Message has been deleted.

•  
  73

  carol102

  10/31/08 | Report as spam

  RE: Why We STILL Hate Human Resources Departments

  To: Mauryse - The paragraph below comes from your response to this article. The reason I am attempting to contact you is because I'm very interested in learning the methods of performance measurement a strengths based company uses. As backgrounder, I'm taking a Masters level HRM course and I will be "teaching" the section in one week, about methods companies use to measure performance. Frankly from what I've learned and researched the majority of companies appear to be using methods which are not valid or unbiased and nor are the connected to how the employee performance links to company strategy. If you are open to sharing this information or have more questions or confidentiality conditions, please email me at carol.ruch@ulv.edu. Thanks.
  -----------------------------------------------
  Maursye - We have a 'strengths-based' philosophy, which is embraced by the whole firm and is a huge factor in what keeps our employees happy and at work everyday. This makes us pretty unique in our approach, and keeps us 'human'.

•  
  74

  carol102

  10/31/08 | Report as spam

  RE: Why We STILL Hate Human Resources Departments

  MichaelA65 -- It's nice to have an engineer around - to help us validate our weaknesses
  
  If one is an employee of a strengths-based organization their roles and responsibilities revolve around the deployment of their strengths. Theoretically in a strengths-base organizational "milieu" other people on the team with an eye for detail are the proofreaders.

•  
  75

  carol102

  10/31/08 | Report as spam

  RE: Why We STILL Hate Human Resources Departments

  edmondsyd - have you published any of your research in Academic Journals? If so, I'd like to read it.

•  
  76

  Winning Workforce

  10/31/08 | Report as spam

  RE: Why We STILL Hate Human Resources Departments

  To R.B. and others who believe that it is part of your job as an HR Professional to advocate for employees, check the signature on your paycheck.
  
  R.B. you have been an HR professional for 20 years and you still don't get it. It's not part of your job to critique the management style of your CEO; your job is to excute results. If you don't like your CEO's management style, quit you and the company will be beter off.
  
  Effective HR Departments and Managers understand their company's business model and how to link employee performance to revenue producing outcomes. Unfortunately, most HR practioners think like R.B. which usually results in more overhead and more process that sucks more revenue off the bottom line.

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  77

  ASAS-Emad

  11/01/08 | Report as spam

  RE: Why We STILL Hate Human Resources Departments

  I think it is good to learn about all points of viewes and defently there is not one that is suitable for all. HR is genarally a difficult profesion although many non-HR think it is so simple which brings out the first gap in understanding. The article has touched on some factual situations in HR practices, but has directed readers to a nagitive attitude. Therfore, I think it did not add much to professionals.
  
  Best regards

•  
  78

  clarian

  11/01/08 | Report as spam

  RE: Why We STILL Hate Human Resources Departments

  Wow, what feedback! I agreed with a number of items in the original article as it spoke of most HR professionals unable to demonstrate their knowledge and skills in the commercial world. I get that HR can be viewed as the "policeman" and I get that managers feel we just add workload to their ever increasing demands; and I also get that that most managers don't know what they don't know...
  
  My approach has always been one of "business partner" (and whilst I hate using the term, it does say what I do). I believe HR is a true support function and thus is there to assist the business to achieve it's objectives, through people. I can't believe some people still feel they are the employee advocate - that job is long gone; and to hear that some HR professionals are not open to the fact that they may be seen as an administrative and beaurocratic challenge demonstrates a lack of EQ...
  
  We are not understood and the value of what we do is not appreciated because we are not able to express this well ourselves; it's no-one else's problem but our own. If we were able to sit at the exec table and discuss the business in the way the marketeer or financier discussed business, then we would be seen as a major contributor; so stop acting like the policeman and offer solutions and alternatives, that assist the business to drive forward, not have to add in more work than necessary.
  
  If the hat fits; wear it!

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  79

  stephen.achilles@...

  11/01/08 | Report as spam

  RE: Why We STILL Hate Human Resources Departments

  As a former middle market HR executive I could not agree more. Rarely does HR work to make a business better. People are too important to a company's success to let the vast majority of HR departments have any authority.

•  
  80

  NickCorcodilos

  11/03/08 | Report as spam

  RE: Why We STILL Hate Human Resources Departments

  There is precious little criticism of how and why the board of directors wastes money on personnel jockeys. Yah, Keith's article will still be valid 5 years from now. As a headhunter, I worry about the nitty-gritty: What exactly HR does to waste money and time: http://www.asktheheadhunter.com/hatenmistakes1.htm
  
  Someone suggested that HR takes marching orders from top management. I don't think that's true at all. HR hides behind the mantle of "compliance," and no one in the board room wants to touch that. So the board accepts HR's "recommendations," and HR can claim the board has given it direction. "Sorry, it's not our fault. We do what we're told. And without us, there would be no company." Bunk. It's time to dismantle HR. At the very least, HR should be taken out of the recruiting and hiring business. Take a look at one example of what this "responsibility" has led to: http://www.asktheheadhunter.com/newsletter/OE20050823.htm.
  
  Thanks for bumping up this topic!

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  81

  tjell20@...

  11/03/08 | Report as spam

  RE: Why We STILL Hate Human Resources Departments

  Just a dreadful article with many uninformed comments. What is the data? This is the best you can do? This settles it for me: BNET is now junkmail.

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  82

  mariedmonaco

  11/03/08 | Report as spam

  RE: Why We STILL Hate Human Resources Departments

  Human assets create value when needs are met, and power is shared. Line employees perform well when they have the resources required to perform as expected. That is a primary HR function. Managers and decision makers need optimum employee output to achieve corporate expectations. Writing policy, procedures and programs that empower employees to perform at optimum level is an HR function. HR professionals without the technical skills to enact these functions should do something else. HR professionals subject to corporate executives unwilling to allow them to practice these skills are handicapped. HR professionals who produce benchmark outcomes, and can prove it, are our heroes. As long as the labor supply/demand balance lies on the supply side, executives will unfairly distribute power. It's a matter of human economics and ethics. I pray someone (Someone) is looking.

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  83

  Carolyn Maloney

  11/03/08 | Report as spam

  RE: Why We STILL Hate Human Resources Departments

  The best thing HR practitioners could do is to change their titles...HR has such a bad reputation!
  We support management, we encourage talent to thrive, we steer management and employees through touch times. I hate being referred to as HR. I'm known as the Director of People or Talent Management and I'm proud. It's a juggling act of being the supporter of the employees and counsel to the management team. Align yourself with the goals of the management team and you'll be fine.

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  84

  Geoff Smith

  11/04/08 | Report as spam

  RE: Why We STILL Hate Human Resources Departments

  I just love this stuff! Emotion, hysteria; sweeping generalisations and so on. For the record let me just say, 'some of my best friends are HR people'. Other than that though I have as little to do with HR people as possible - apart the exceptions of course but I would suggest they are more business manager responsible for HR than they are HR if you get my drift. Organisations that hire then cripple good HR people should fire the manager who made the decision to do that. And HR people should stop demonstrating what a great whining victim looks like. I liken the job to that of Counsellor on the bridge of the StarShip Enterprise. The only reason you are there is because you add value and people trust you. If that is not the case for you, then take a hike and spare us the moaning.
  Geoff Smith (New Zealand)

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  85

  performancepartners

  11/04/08 | Report as spam

  RE: Why We STILL Hate Human Resources Departments

  Part of the problem is the name, Human Resources. Think about the VPs in organizations. You have VPs of Marketing, Engineering, Sales, Research, etc. etc. They are all VPs of verbs. That is, their very names are action-oriented and strategic and they manage strategies. We poor HR people are left managing only a resource, rather like being VP Iron in a company that engineers iron into fabulous products. We've come a long way from being the Personnel Department to get to being the Human Resources Department. Now it's time to move to the next level.

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  86

  acricketer

  11/06/08 | Report as spam

  RE: Why We STILL Hate Human Resources Departments

  People are as good as they are allowed to be. This includes HR. Leaders are the reason HR has a poor reputation.If leaders do not see the role as strategic then HR will be 'administration'. If leaders appreciate the strategic impact of managing the human capital of a business well, then there will be a partnership.
  
  Leaders cannot manage people so they delegate that function to HR, who also are hobbled by an invisible communication barrier set up by top management.
  
  Leaders get results through people. Managers get results through systems.
  
  Yes, HR can be entirely ineffective. Whose fault is that?

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  87

  nyexpat

  11/06/08 | Report as spam

  RE: Why We STILL Hate Human Resources Departments

  When you're applying for a job, going through HR is the pit of despair. Most haven't a true clue what to look for in a resume. And that they're often tasked to be the gatekeepers is moronic and maddening. Which is why I always try to send (when possible) my information to the source. The ONLY way to get a job these days!

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  88

  splotts

  11/07/08 | Report as spam

  RE: Why We STILL Hate Human Resources Departments

  This whole issue is really about one thing.......is HR a strategic partner or is it not? Who makes that decision?..........Executive Management. The bottome line is that Executive Management has to make the decision to have a strategic focused HR department, partner with the department, have HR sitting at the table when discussions around talent management take place, and then hire the HR Director who knows how to turn HR into a strategic business partner. Executive Leadership has the control, the power, and the responsibility to make this happen.

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  89

  splotts

  11/07/08 | Report as spam

  RE: Why We STILL Hate Human Resources Departments

  This whole issue is really about one thing.......is HR a strategic partner or is it not? Who makes that decision?..........Executive Management. The bottom line is that Executive Management has to make the decision to have a strategic focused HR department, partner with the department, have HR sitting at the table when discussions around talent management take place, and then hire the HR Director who knows how to turn HR into a strategic business partner. Executive Leadership has the control, the power, and the responsibility to make this happen.

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  90

  annellaw

  11/11/08 | Report as spam

  RE: Why We STILL Hate Human Resources Departments

  LOL! Stop with the bickering already! Doesn't it all depend upon your own experience of HR? Sure, your company or business might have an ethical, knowledgable, responsive and genuinely enthusiastic HR, but there are some truly awful ones out there. If you're unlucky enough to work for the latter, speak up. Document your issues, raise it with your manager, write to the CEO. Ask them if they've reviewed their HR strategies against the promised benefits. Has productivity increased? Profits? Less turnover of staff?
  However, if your HR is that bad, look for another job - but make sure you communicate your reasons to the Executive on the way out. You may have the last laugh.

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  91

  ailynn

  11/12/08 | Reported as spam

  Message has been deleted.

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  92

  chad_senga

  11/14/08 | Report as spam

  RE: Why We STILL Hate Human Resources Departments

  LOL. I notice as the commentaries increase, they become more and more like those of YouTube: downright personal while some exacerbate their blind fury.
  
  In a way, as the article's name 'Re-Examining ???Why We Hate HR"' goes, I believe that Mr. Peter is just pointing out the negativity that exists in HR but not necessarily generalizing it as a whole. It's basic logic.
  
  Because the negativity exists, it needs to be identified so that people having related problems about it can remedy it. But if the company you're working for has an outstanding and competitive HR, then much better for you.
  
  It would be childish if you would be affected by this article since you are obviously not happy with your own performance or your HR's performance because you adhere the opinion of others.
  
  If you are certain and confident that what you do is right and great, stand tall and focus your ears on your heart and not the bickering then change will happen by itself. A change not fogged with confusing words and biased opinions, but through genuine actions.

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  93

  jenyj89

  11/21/08 | Report as spam

  RE: Why We STILL Hate Human Resources Departments

  From a Federal Government perspective...HR is horrendous!! You put in an application and the HR (or Personnel) people review it for "key words" and give you a rating based on your experience and those "key words"...not on any understanding that they have of your experience!! There is how our HR works. So I could be applying to work as a GS-11 (a reasonably high-level job) and be rated by a GS-5 Personnel Clerk who doesn't even understand what she just read, but she looked for key words in my application and gave me credit for having those key words.
  
  My HR or Personnel at my base is so bad that the Head of Personnel when confronted with her own regulations quoted to her, has to excuse herself and go check them. She doesn't know them.
  
  Most of our Personnel people are far below us on the pay scale and are worried about their jobs being threatened. They don't know their own regs and our Union agreements. They allow managers and supervisors to disregard Union agreements and we constantly have to call them on it and remind them they have to abide by the rules. As Personnel that is part of their job....not just to look out for management, but to look out for ALL employees!! It doesn't happen...file an Unfair Labor Practice and you'll find that Personnel has nothing but love for management and everyone else is out in the cold...even if management is DEAD WRONG!!
  
  I have nothing for Personnel or HR but contempt!!

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  94

  billcashman

  11/25/08 | Report as spam

  RE: Why We STILL Hate Human Resources Departments

  Didn't we see this poor piece circulating a few weeks back? Why is it being rehashed?

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  95

  Str8key

  12/17/08 | Report as spam

  RE: Why We STILL Hate Human Resources Departments

  In general I agree with the article based on my experiences with HR in many companies. I don't believe many of them are qualified to judge someone's capability based on a resume simply because many of them don't understand the position they are interviewing for. I think the problem with HR programs is that upper management neuters HR down to administrative functions only. I once worked at a company that was losing good people due to a VP/GM with a Napoleon personality who ran the company with intimidation, had tantrums (including throwing things in meetings) and punished staffers by making them work Saturdays for not meeting dept. goals. Many people went into HR about this guy, including myself. Our HR manager was powerless to stop this guy from driving the good staff away and the day I turned in my resignation all she could do was put her head in her hands. I think HR should have to power to get a jerk like that on a PIP and out the door rather than let the company suffer the loss of several good employees who get fed up.

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  96

  owebeewan_1

  01/20/09 | Report as spam

  RE: Why We STILL Hate Human Resources Departments

  Hey,
  
  Poor writing, no support other than memories, not applicable to all organisations and not up to the standard I expect from BNET.
  
  Please do a better job. If you want to criticize HR, please find 1 organisation and illustrate that.
  
  Dont make sweeping generalisations. Do some research.

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  97

  Dan Boos Top 100 Change Consultant

  01/30/09 | Report as spam

  RE: Why We STILL Hate Human Resources Departments

  How convenient it is to critique HR Departments as if they are somehow not a part of the overall operation of the business. If as a CEO, have a philosophy and practice that treats HR as a unique and separate entity, then you should out-source your department. If however, as a dynamic CEO you accept the responsibility for "leading" your organization, then you must recognize and accept that HR's performance is a reflection of your own leadership. When the "widgets" are flawed or capacity gets out of hand, you lead your organization to measures that correct and enhance your company's capabilities. You remove inhibitors to success and bring forth enablers. Vision, strategic planning, innovation and continuous improvement are not meant only to address process and technology issues, but also people issues. By viewing HR in a less traditional manner and applying the same level of interest and proactiion to human capital as you do to supply chain or say R&D, you would engineer a human capital managment program that adds value to organization's overall success. "C-level" staff cannot logically or ethically make the argument that their HR Department is inefficient or ineffective without saying the same about their own leadership performance. When leaders equitably address the management of human capital along with finance, operations and technology, then they are more likely to steer their organization to profitable outcomes. Human capital is the "most critical of success factors" within the vision, strategy and implementation of a proitable business. As the CEO, be inclusive and make human capital mangement over in the image of an innovative best practice and establish it as a strategic partner and enabler of high-performance and profitability. It's your job!

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  98

  Richard-HK

  02/10/09 | Report as spam

  RE: Why We STILL Hate Human Resources Departments

  I'm not an HR professional, rather a business controls and risk management person dragged into the fray as a result of compliance work for the hated Sarbanes-Oxley regulations. With more than 35 years of business experience, I've seen many HR functions that fit the stereotype in Peter's posting. I've also seen HR functions that are full partners with other functions in delivering organisational results. As many other commentors have pointed out, the difference between to the two is usually the attitude of the CEO and other C-level execs. If they really value the organisation's people as key assets of the business, then they demand a leading HR function that meets all objectives of supporting the organisation's goals, promoting the welfare-opportunities-development-contribution of the staff, and protecting the organisation by advising management how to act in a way that minimises the potential for legal consequences. From a SOX compliance point of view, one of the leading causes of reportable control weaknesses has been the lack of qualified, trained, and properly equipped personnel in key internal control positions. Any CEO or CFO who takes pride in their organisation being COSO or COSO ERM compliant and/or compliant with Sarbanes-Oxley and who does not place value on having a high capability HR function as part of the team is deluding himself or herself. There is a reason that HR is the only function other than Finance-Accounting, Executive Management, and the Board that is specifically mentioned in the Control Environment component of the COSO ERM framework. Without an activity that is focused on acquiring, developing, and retaining the most qualified people possible for the organisation, there is virtually no way to ensure continuity and effectiveness of internal controls and risk management.

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  99

  lisa_hr

  02/18/09 | Report as spam

  RE: Why We STILL Hate Human Resources Departments

  This has to be a joke right? So an employee fails to perform and gets put on PIP, but it's not the poor employees fault right? It's HRs? Give me a break. A PIP is a tool and is only useful to someone who has the will and desire to actually improve their performance instead of whining about being picked on.
  
  Oh and for the record? HR doesn't manage the employees, the manager does (or they should if they're doing the job they were hired to do).
  
  Most of the negative comments directed towards HR, I have found, are coming from disgruntled employees who were fired (shocker) and lazy managers who want HR to do their job.
  
  Newsflash people, HR does not manage your workforce, you - the manager - are supposed to be managing your "own" workforce. That includes the PIP when necessary or any other method necessary to motivate, encourage, train and retain your people.
  
  HR provides the training and the tools, how you use them is up to you. That is, if you're a manager who has any interest or desire in managing your people at all? Do I need to break out the hand puppets? Sheesh.

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  100

  pgostick

  07/29/09 | Report as spam

  RE: Why We STILL Hate Human Resources Departments

  Lisa - comment 99, what a patronising individual you are.
  
  "HR provides the training and the tools, how you use them is up to you. That is, if you're a manager who has any interest or desire in managing your people at all? Do I need to break out the hand puppets?"
  
  Thank you for making the case, so eloquently, that HR just provides tools for managers. In that case you are not a strategic partner to the business just a supplier - you can be outsourced. Goodbye.