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Guy Vs. Guy: Cell Phone Bans: Good or Evil?

May 14th, 2009 @ 7:34 am

26 Comments

Categories: Gizmos and Gadgets, Guy Vs. Guy, Travel Tips

Tags: Car, Phone, Cell Phone, Accident, Rick, Dave, Telecom & Utilities, Policies And Procedures, Human Resources, Rick Broida

Welcome to Guy Vs. Guy! In this recurring feature, Rick and Dave square off on the business and technology issues of the day. This week’s topic: dialing and driving. More and more states are ordering drivers to put down their phones. For many businesspeople, that’s a tough act-of-government to swallow. But is it necessary?

Dave: A handful of states are adopting legislation that rolls back your right to talk on a phone while driving. I find this a fascinating example of random governmental nannyism. You, I’m sure, favor such rules and would never even think of using a cell phone while driving a vehicle, even though having business conversations during commutes is an essential part of our lives today. So: Ready, set, crazy talk!

Rick:  Yeah, I hate it when the government tries to save people from themselves, like with those pesky seatbelt laws. If I want to go through the windshield, that’s my constitutional right, dammit! The inescapable fact is that when you’re monkeying with a cell phone while driving, you’re not paying attention to the road. My only hope is that you’ll pile into a tree and not the oncoming minivan containing my family.

Dave: I really don’t need to be saved from myself, especially when that saving comes in the form of the government using force of arms to do so. Especially when most, if not all, states already have perfectly good distracted-driving laws on the books. If you are doing something that interferes with your ability to safely operate a motor vehicle, you’re already in violation of the law. Why do we need a new law that covers just one random thing that could potentially be distracting?

Rick: Potentially? The only thing more distracting than a cell phone is a GPS (which is why many automakers wisely restrict drivers from interacting with built-in nav systems when the vehicle is in motion). Think about it: The simple act of dialing a number requires you to glance down at your phone a minimum of 11 times (one for each number, then again to find the Send button). Sure, you can reduce this with speed-dial, voice-dial, touch-dial, etc., but even those require some attention-stealing interaction with the phone. And don’t forget the opposite side of coin: I know people who read their BlackBerrys while driving. So, yeah, I have no problem with legislation that punishes that kind of insanity.

Dave: While I appreciate your personal opinion that cell phones are the Most Dangerous Thing Ever, there are a million distractions in your car, so why only outlaw one of them? GPS, programming a radio station, reading a paper map, dealing with a cranky kid in the backseat, cleaning a spilled coffee out of your lap, eating a sandwich. They’re all as distracting or moreso than voice-dialing a phone. Let’s face it: There are 11 million reported accidents each year, and  42,000 result in death (and those numbers have held roughly steady for years, despite the rise of cell phone use). That means that of all the accidents each year, less than a half of a single percent result in death. Cell phones are responsible for a subset of even that number. Life is full of tradeoffs. Prohibiting my ability to use a cell phone for such a statistically insignificant payoff is simply not a rational decision.

Rick: Just to clarify my position, I’m not in favor of banning phones outright. That’s both ridiculous and unenforceable. But I do support the current crop of hands-free laws, which require drivers to use a headset or speakerphone. Because, much as it pains me to say so, you’re right: Talking on a cell phone hardly qualifies as more distracting than futzing with the radio or turning around to let the kids know you will stop this car if they don’t shape up. At least a headset lets you keep both hands on the wheel. The real issue these days seems to be texting while driving. Read the account of a guy who got rear-ended three times in one year by SMS-happy drivers. It’s amazing he wasn’t killed. People need to wake up and smell the asphalt: Cars are deadly weapons, and if you’re paying attention to your phone instead of the road, someone’s going to get hurt — or worse.

Dave: Wow… for a moment, and I do mean just for a fleeting moment, you seemed to stop emoting and actually consider the question from a dispassionate, rational position. But now you’re back to emoting, and all is right with the world again. You want to legislate away cell phones in cars unless they’re hands-free, citing a highly questionable article filled with unsubstantiated hearsay. Well, guess what? I have my own anecdotal evidence. I drove to work today and passed about 1,000 cars. Not one of them got in an accident. Not a single one. I would even bet that at least one percent of them were checking e-mail or placing a call while the vehicle was in operation (I certainly was). So if it’s a battle of anecdotes, I will absolutely win, since there are 11 million reported accidents annually, but, conservatively speaking, well in excess of 100 billion car trips each year. Good odds, I say, and ample reason not to legislate away more of our rights.

Rick: So if I understand your “logic” correctly, the fact that we don’t have more traffic accidents means we shouldn’t take steps to help prevent the ones we do have. Can you even see the crux of this argument anymore? I’ll use some small words and short sentences to help you out. Businesspeople who spend a lot of time behind the wheel — I’m talking realtors, salespeople, traveling IT staff, and the like — are probably the folks who play dangerous games with their phones. I don’t want these people killing others — or even themselves — because they decided a text message or client call was more important than common-sense road safety. Phones, BlackBerries, GPSes — handy tools like these often make drivers throw their common sense out the window (which is littering, by the way, also bad). Legislation may not be effective, but it might just help knock some awareness into these people. Tell me again which “rights” are being taken away?

Dave: But if we have established that statistically speaking, cell phone car accidents are relatively insignificant, what exactly is the point of banning their use? Your argument sounds suspiciously like “if it saves only one child, isn’t it worth it?” And I’m sorry, but no, as much as I love kids, sometimes it isn’t worth it. Like in this case: I don’t want to be fined or arrested because I accidentally left my Bluetooth headset at home and had to make an important call anyway. As long as I do it safely, why chip away at what I’m allowed to do in my car? Unless you also plan to ban kids, food, and music, as well, since they’re also distractions. (Remember that episode of the Brady Bunch in which Greg got in a car accident because he was looking at a record jacket?)

Rick: You may use your phone safely (if there is such a thing), but what about the moron who’s texting while driving? Poking around the glove compartment to find the charger? In fact, forget about your rights — at this point I’m more concerned about my right to travel the roads as safely as possible. I honestly don’t see the harm in legislation that promotes that goal. Sorry if it inconveniences you or anybody else. We don’t let people drive drunk. Why should we let them drive distracted?

Okay, who won the debate? Hit the Talkback to declare a winner and share your thoughts on the issue. When that’s done, check out the previous Guy Vs. Guy entries, which are just as entertaining and enlightening.

Photo by xersti.

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  •  
    1

    BizHacks Dave

    05/14/09 | Report as spam

    RE: Guy Vs. Guy: Cell Phone Bans: Good or Evil?

    By the way, Rick, with regard to your closing comment, I am pretty certain you do not have a "right to safety," nor am I sure how that would be provided for you. No combination of laws will ever ensure your immortality, even if you accept a suffocating web of nannyism laws that outlaw everything that seems even somewhat dangerous.

  •  
    2

    BizHacksRick

    05/14/09 | Report as spam

    RE: Guy Vs. Guy: Cell Phone Bans: Good or Evil?

    Just gotta have the last word, don't you...

  •  
    3

    lipanj

    05/14/09 | Report as spam

    RE: Guy Vs. Guy: Cell Phone Bans: Good or Evil?

    Get with it----how many accidents from people driving talking on cell phones. IT IS DANGEROUS.
    The only reason certain states won't bann them is most likely accepting the pay offs from the cell phone manufacturers. They should be used only for emergencies.

  •  
    4

    lipanj

    05/14/09 | Report as spam

    RE: Guy Vs. Guy: Cell Phone Bans: Good or Evil?

    Cekk phones should be banned period (esp for auto use) - They should be used only for emergencies. And all that hogwash about what about adjusting the radio etc. radios were in cars practically ever since henry ford. And all the other stuff tho which I think they shouldn't do like eating and drinking -putting make-up on while driving. yes but those how can you control that.
    What did we do before cell phones - we lived - it is sick sicko and extremely dangerous. The only reason some states still won't pass the bann law is no. 1 is PA....is the crooked governor probably accepts the pay offs from the cell phone cos. not to ban them. a little girl was killed by a cell phone user while driving. She fought and fought to have them banned - lost. PA....I was hit by a man using a cell pulled right out on me from a stop sign - never stopped and I ended up with a complete broken leg. Get with it you modern idiots...

  •  
    5

    BizHacks Dave

    05/14/09 | Report as spam

    RE: Guy Vs. Guy: Cell Phone Bans: Good or Evil?

    @lipanz: I was rear-ended once, about 15 years ago. The driver apologized, claiming that his son had spilled food in the car and he looked away to give him napkins to clean up the mess. Should we ban food in cars? Or would you rather ban the napkins? Perhaps it's kids that should be outlawed.

    You say "how many accidents from people driving talking on cell phones." The answer is: a mind-boggingly small number compared to the number of car trips taken in total. You need to stop thinking in terms of annecdotes ("I heard about a car accident caused by a cell phone!") and start thinking about real-world statistics, probabilities, and trade-offs.

  •  
    6

    vampirekwc

    05/15/09 | Report as spam

    RE: Guy Vs. Guy: Cell Phone Bans: Good or Evil?

    I didn't get past the first two paragraphs because both Dave and Rick take the angle that we have the "right" to drive the way we want to. Neither author seems to understand that driving is not a right, it is a privilege bestowed upon us by the states we live in. This is evidenced by the fact that you need a driver's license in order to drive.

    If driving was a right, we wouldn't need a license.

    Since driving is a privilege, the states can make any rules and laws they want to govern it. By the nature of rights and privileges, these rules and laws do not infringe upon any rights we have at the national, state, or local levels.

    Regarding talking on the phone while driving: I have a 65-mile commute to and from work. Every day...and that's not an exaggeration...EVERY day I see drivers on the phone who inadvertently swerve between lanes, suddenly slow down in the passing lane by 10 or 15 mph, change lanes without looking or using their signal, and rapidly fly across multiple lanes to get off an exit that they almost miss.

    Talking on the phone distracts the driver. It's obvious. Maybe you guys should get off the phone for a few minutes and observe other drivers. It only takes a few minutes to see it happening.

    Even if one person dies as the result of some self-important loser on the phone who's not paying attention, that's too many people.

    If you support allowing people to talk on the phone while driving, then you support the deaths of innocent people. It's that simple. And I'm sure that 99.9% of those who think it's okay to yap and drive would not feel the same if their spouse, child, sibling, or best friend was killed because someone flew into them while trying to answer their phone.

  •  
    7

    BJE

    05/15/09 | Report as spam

    RE: Guy Vs. Guy: Cell Phone Bans: Good or Evil?

    I cannot believe this qualitiy business blog is paying you people to rant. I mean is this really the kind of uncooperative, non-problem solving business communications that we as a society want to promote?

    Should I desire to watch or read about other men ridiculous business on display, I'd watch Trumps Millionaire. I mean isn't it the American dream to watch the 6 figure working professional make more money? Or is the true meaning of apprenticeship to take someone with potential but humble background or outlet for skill and mentor them to mastery skills?

    This man will never waste his valuable professional reading time on this Man v. Man BS again.

  •  
    8

    scribbler60

    05/15/09 | Report as spam

    RE: Guy Vs. Guy: Cell Phone Bans: Good or Evil?

    I spent some time working in the insurance field and was tasked to review some studies on driving while gabbing on a cellphone.

    The results were nothing short of astonishing.

    In essence, babbling away on a cellphone while attempting to control two tons of glass and steel hurtling down the highway at 60 mp/h was the equivalent of driving while under the influence.

    That's right: Drivers talking on their cellphones while driving are just as bad, and maybe worse, than drunks.

    Some research includes the following:

    The NHTSA estimates that your chance of getting in an accident increases by 300% if you're talking on your cellular phone while driving. (http://www.drivinglaws.org/stats.php)

    Motorists who use cellphones while driving are four times as likely to get into crashes serious enough to injure themselves, according to a study of drivers in Perth, Australia, conducted by the Insurance Institute for Highway Safety. (http://www.iii.org/media/hottopics/insurance/cellphones/)

    A recent study by the Insurance Institute for Highway Safety gives the first concrete evidence of the effects of cell phone use on injury crashes. IIHS revealed recently that drivers using phones are four times as likely to get into crashes serious enough to injure themselves. (http://www.newsdial.com/technology/communication/cell-phone-statistics.html)

    And all this talk of "rights" reminds me of a quote by Viktor Frankl (he of Man's Search for Meaning). There is another side to the "rights" equation, and that's called "responsibilities." While one may (mistakenly) believe it's one's "right" to chat away on a cellphone while driving, then one must accept the responsibility to manage your vehicle in a way that's safe for other drivers.

    And that means refraining from using your cellphone while driving.

  •  
    9

    BizHacksRick

    05/15/09 | Report as spam

    RE: Guy Vs. Guy: Cell Phone Bans: Good or Evil?

    @vampirekwc: Did you even read my side?! We're on the same team! happy

  •  
    10

    BizHacksRick

    05/15/09 | Report as spam

    RE: Guy Vs. Guy: Cell Phone Bans: Good or Evil?

    @MMFisher, you know, I've heard about those studies, and I really find it hard to believe that talking on a phone is equivalent to drunk driving. *Operating* a phone, maybe, but how is it really different from conversing with a passenger?

  •  
    11

    scribbler60

    05/15/09 | Report as spam

    RE: Guy Vs. Guy: Cell Phone Bans: Good or Evil?

    "I really find it hard to believe that talking on a phone is equivalent to drunk driving."

    I must admit that I found the assertion suspect as well, but a University of Utah study seems to bear it out.

    "Is having a cell phone pressed to your ear while behind the wheel the equivalent of driving while intoxicated? According to a study by University of Utah psychologists, the answer is, unfortunately, yes." (http://news.cnet.com/8301-10784_3-6090342-7.html)

    Apparently, those who study these things conclude that having a conversation with a passenger in a vehicle uses different parts of the brain than chatting on the phone. Why that is, I don't know - I'm not a neurologist. But when one puts together the studies and sees it corroborated on a daily basis by experience on the road, it's pretty hard to deny the conclusion.

  •  
    12

    BizHacksRick

    05/15/09 | Report as spam

    RE: Guy Vs. Guy: Cell Phone Bans: Good or Evil?

    @MMFisher: Studies or no, my brain refuses to believe it. Of course, it also can't understand how people listen to Rush Limbaugh, so it's not the best tool for the job.

  •  
    13

    scribbler60

    05/15/09 | Report as spam

    RE: Guy Vs. Guy: Cell Phone Bans: Good or Evil?

    "it also can't understand how people listen to Rush Limbaugh"

    Well, you certainly got me there. I, too, cannot seem to understand the audience appeal of a drug-addled Limbaugh spewing right-wing nonsense. But that's just me... and maybe another topic for another time.

  •  
    14

    schmiez

    05/15/09 | Report as spam

    RE: Guy Vs. Guy: Cell Phone Bans: Good or Evil?

    Trade-off was mentioned by Dave.

    Why do I get put at risk, even if its 0.000001% higher because you feel you have to make a phone-call while the car is moving?

    Why not pull over if its so important?

    Seems like our priorities are convoluted. Either getting from point A to point B is more important, or making the call is more important (minus the B-tooth). You must choose, and that is what angers some.

    Where do you draw the line? internet is available anywhere now, can I use my laptop while driving? what about watch TV?

  •  
    15

    vampirekwc

    05/15/09 | Report as spam

    RE: Guy Vs. Guy: Cell Phone Bans: Good or Evil?

    MMFisher: Thanks for pointing out those studies. People who argue that it is "statistically insignificant" are just looking at numbers without looking at the death, destruction, injury, and overall changes to people's lives that those "insignificant" numbers mean.

    Rick: No, honestly, I didn't read your side. When both of you stated you felt that talking on your phone was a "right," I lost interest. I knew one of you would be on each side of the argument, but at that point, I couldn't take either of you seriously. And regarding your statement, "I really find it hard to believe that talking on a phone is equivalent to drunk driving"...I understand this example is not a true scientific study, but they tested this theory on the show Mythbusters. They had a test course and had a person drive it sober with no phone, sober while having a cell phone conversation, and drunk with no phone. The test results for "drunk" and "sober while having a cell phone conversation" were very, very similar. Again, I know that's not the most scientific test...but the results are stark enough not to ignore.

  •  
    16

    BizHacks Dave

    05/15/09 | Report as spam

    RE: Guy Vs. Guy: Cell Phone Bans: Good or Evil?

    @vampirekwc: It seems like you've twisted my meaning somewhat out of proportion. In the United States, rights are not granted by government; rights are only supressed by government. Therefore, you have a right to do anything that which is not explicitly managed by law. If there's no law saying I can't do something, by default it is my right to do so. That's all I meant by "my right" to talk on a cell phone.

  •  
    17

    R. B.

    05/15/09 | Report as spam

    RE: Guy Vs. Guy: Cell Phone Bans: Good or Evil?

    Well, Dave, I hope when you finally plow into someone or someone finally plows into you, you firmly assert your (and their) "right" to have jeopardized the safety of everyone you and they share the road with. Your "right" to do something ends when you are jeopardizing my life. If you can't act responsibly and use a hands-free device, you are way too selfish for words.

    I don't believe people should be doing things like reading, watching movies, putting on makeup, getting dressed, working on the computer, faxing, or other such things that require a great deal of the attention of our brain while they are also driving down the road at high rates of speed. Kids getting out of line? Pull over. Didn't get your makeup on before you left home? Tough. Put it on at work or wait a few minutes until you get finished dressing and then drive to work. Want to read that text message and reply while you're driving? Pull over. Want to talk on the phone? Use a hands free device. Want to get drunk? Don't drive. I mean, you have a RIGHT to get drunk, don't you? But you don't have a right to endanger the lives of others while you're exercising your "rights." At least behave responsibly to reduce the controllable risk of causing an accident.

    Just my opinion. But if you hit me, Dave, I'm suing you for everything you're worth.

  •  
    18

    scribbler60

    05/15/09 | Report as spam

    RE: Guy Vs. Guy: Cell Phone Bans: Good or Evil?

    Well, "rights" or no, I think the whole dialling-while-driving scenario is just another manifestation of a peculiar social construct that seems to be ingrained in much of North American culture.

    It's a culture of narcisissm, an Ayn-Rand-style philosophy of self-entitlement: "I'll do whatever I want without regard to anyone else because it's my responsibility to look out after #1."

    The yakking driver is saying, "I'm more important than everyone else on the road, and if I put them at higher risk because I'm distracted on a cellphone, that's just too damn bad. It's all about ME, all the time."

    Vampirekwc, I never saw the Mythbusters episode that you refer to (and I thought I had seem them all! Love that show... especially the delectable Kari Byron... yowza!) but I'll be sure to look it up. Thanks for the tip!

  •  
    19

    scribbler60

    05/15/09 | Report as spam

    RE: Guy Vs. Guy: Cell Phone Bans: Good or Evil?

    Oh blast... was meaning to include this in my last message but I selected the "Submit" button too fast...

    A few weeks ago outside of Chicago a woman named Anita Zaffke was stopped on her motorcycle waiting for a light to change.

    Laura Hunt, driving her Chevolet Impala, was distracted by attending to other things in her vehicle and slammed into the back of Zaffke's motorcycle.

    According to the police report, Zaffke was thrown a "couple of hundred feet." She died later in hospital.

    And how was Hunt distracted?

    She was painting her nails. (http://www.chicagobreakingnews.com/2009/05/motorcyclist-killed-by-driver-painting-fingernails.html)

    Part of the article reads, "Applying makeup while driving ranks up there in the danger zone with reading a book or dialing a cell phone.." (emphasis added)

  •  
    20

    BizHacks Dave

    05/15/09 | Report as spam

    RE: Guy Vs. Guy: Cell Phone Bans: Good or Evil?

    @R. B.: You make great points -- the very same one I made about how distracting a slew of ordinary tasks in the car happen to be. I too believe that people "shouldn't" do those things. But "shouldn't" is a platitude, not an actionable matter for public policy. And that's what this thread was (supposed to be) about. Which gets back to my point -- it seems arbitrary to focus on a single hotbutton-of-the-week issue like cell phones when legislating them is (a) redundant becuase there are existing distracted driving laws in effect and (b) ineffective becuase a million other distractions still exist.

    So R. B., it has always been your perrogative to sue me no matter what the cause of the accident. Not sure why you mentioned it, except perhaps to indicate you'd sue me more if I was on my cell phone rather than, say, looking at a billboard. Maybe I should sue the billboard for being an attractive nusance.

  •  
    21

    caman

    05/18/09 | Report as spam

    RE: Guy Vs. Guy: Cell Phone Bans: Good or Evil?

    I don t really see the problem about baning the use of phone
    while driving as long as the use of free hand-set is allowed (
    they permite to minimize the ressources needed for phoning
    and this way concentrate on the road)
    I am french, live in spain and in both countries it's baned: the
    free hand set is part of the car now...and phoning as easy as
    before wink and on the top , it charges my phone .

  •  
    22

    BizHacksRick

    05/18/09 | Report as spam

    RE: Guy Vs. Guy: Cell Phone Bans: Good or Evil?

    I think the main takeaway here is that we should all be more careful. And we should urge our friends and family to be more careful. Cell phones, nav systems, fingernails, radios, kids in the backseat--they're ALL distractions, and they can all lead to disaster in the blink of an eye.

    Me, I'm staying home. Under the covers. At least until Dave agrees to stay off the road.

  •  
    23

    wayne001

    05/18/09 | Report as spam

    RE: Guy Vs. Guy: Cell Phone Bans: Good or Evil?

    BAN PHONE USE IN THE AUTO WHILE DRIVING!!!!

  •  
    24

    wayne001

    05/18/09 | Report as spam

    RE: Guy Vs. Guy: Cell Phone Bans: Good or Evil?

    BAN THE USE IN MOVING AUTOS!!!

    What makes you so important that you have to use the phone in traffic and on the highway. Sounds like a bunch of EGO talking there. Give me a break.

    Whenever I see someone around me doing something stupid while driving they have a phone stuck in their ear. Stuff like driving slow, weaving lanes, changing lanes w/o looking and passing in front of ambulances/fire trucks/cops while their sirens are on and oblivious to what's going on.

  •  
    25

    clarkm

    06/01/09 | Report as spam

    RE: Guy Vs. Guy: Cell Phone Bans: Good or Evil?

    Why does it matter what the distraction is? Why single out cell phones other than it's a popular issue right now? There are plenty of laws against driving wrecklessly and distracted driving. Police rarely if ever stop anybody in these circumstances, althought they may issue a citation after an accident for this behavior. Cell phone users are just easy targets.

  •  
    26

    DavidDock

    06/09/09 | Report as spam

    RE: Guy Vs. Guy: Cell Phone Bans: Good or Evil?

    THIS GUY GOT SUED BECAUSE HE POSTED HIS GIRLFRIENDS NUDES ALL OVER THET NET!Whenever I see someone around me doing something stupid while driving they have a phone stuck in their ear.

    bluetooth motorcycle intercom

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